Landry Jones

I'd say the Buffalo guy you are talking about is Legursky right? I figured it was hard for us to keep him around since he was a backup center and once Pouncey was healthy again they just figured it made Legursky expendable since maybe he wasn't as good at other OL positions as he was at that one. I probably would say I've got more of an issue with the guys we've been bringing in as opposed to the guys we've been cutting. Hopefully these guys turn out to prove me wrong though. Guys like Mitchell and Thomas I would like to see pan out. Also I would say that mac has a point about Will Allen not being that great BUT I will say the local radio guys in Pittsburgh do seem to really like him. So maybe he's just sort of a polarizing type guy ya know? Like a dude that puts people on the fence.

 

He's talking about Urbick. I forget who they kept over him but it was the wrong call from the beginning.

 

Oh. So Buffalo really IS becoming Pittsburgh North-er. LOL!

 

Landry thread? :o That's weird i thought for sure i been reading on practice squads.

 

Yes Urbick. Thanks.

 

Did some research they kept Hills over Urbik

 

I am way late to the thread, but I think you have a point. I think it's easy to over value youth and potential. We know what Will Allen is, a decent backup safety who later in his career will give some speed/athleticism but will overall keep us afloat in a pinch because he's been there and knows what he is doing. Sure, keeping him over a Dangerfield, Ventrone, Golden, or Holliman isn't doing anything for the future of the team... But maybe cutting him in favor of the aforementioned significantly hurts us in the short term. Plus, we don't know if any of those players will become decent backups at any point in their career (none of them are at this point in time), so it's a huge risk.

I wouldn't advocate a "let's see what they've got" type attitude either. In the NFL you can't afford to have these guys fall on their face, because it will cost you games. I understand that you can't keep a team full of veterans, but you can't just cast all of them off in hopes of having a bunch of undrafted FA's fill out the depth portion of your roster. In the end you win some (Harrison, Foster) and you lose some (Urbik, Mauro*). IMO you should always take the best player at that current moment. The current season trumps the future every time unless there is a tie or something like a project player you believe in that you're willing to take the roster spot risk with like Bryant (and possibly Holliman this season).

* I put the asterisk next to Mauro because it's hard to tell if he is a "loss" at this point after 5 active games.

 

Ouch haha although idk how Urbik would've fit in our current ZBS, and whether or not he is actually an upgrade over Foster. He would be a great backup though, or would make Foster expendable and could be an okay starter. I'd chalk that up as a loss tho. Hills was just... Bad lol

 

Some very good points made here.

 

Have to be honest and say that when Allen was in the defense was better than when Troy P. was....Something to be said for a guy playing solid on the back-end and everyone not having to figure out where he'll be.

 

sometimes around here it seems more like years over potential and i hope it's not the case this year. i don't think will allen beats most out on pure play on the field, but knowledge. golden, shark and now mitchell should have enough seasons under their belts now that we shouldn't need that vet knowledge on the bench. i'd prefer some younger talent that could athletically increase our back end at some point.

 

I really wish they wouldn't have let McCain walk but I guess since they were planning on drafting a corner early and Allen had just signed a deal they figured we could do without him. I'm with you in thinking our back end needs all the help it can get.

 

yes will helped but it was more because of scheme and how we used him coupled with a corner on one side of the field than it was him playing a conventional role in our overall defense. we had to give alot to have him in there. that didn't work out well in the big picture of this defense. we ended up having to use him as a secondary safety net as help for sub par corner play.

now to have to play a different type of scheme where range is involved, thats where he won't make the same impact and it limits our defense. if he was that good, he would have been playing over troy and mitchell last year. his range kept him out of those spots and forced us to play a certain scheme on defense at that point and it limited us to that.

 

here is what i am talking about with will allen having to be on the field instead of a younger more athletic guy if it comes to that.this is where he will limit us. http://www.steelersdepot.com/2015/0...g-the-many-questions-facing-steelers-defense/

 

Who would you rather have than Allen? I read a post of your earlier saying you'd rather have ANY young player that "shows something", but I was wondering if there was anyone in particular you had in mind? Just curious.

I think that cutting Allen would be a huge risk IMO. Keeping a younger and faster guy doesn't necessarily mean we are keeping a better football player... Allen is a back up. There is definitely gonna be parts of his game that are less than perfect (speed being the one you pointed out), but you do know that he is NFL caliber between the ears and will be at least decent out there, even if he is an imperfect fit.

We have a football team that is good enough to win our division again, and if the defense improves over the course of the season we will have a team capable of winning it all. If we roll out there with Golden, Holliman, and (insert random UDFA) as our Safety depth we could be a Shark hammy or Mitchell groin away from missing the playoffs. I believe that we will be addressing our safety depth in next years draft (probably in earlier mid rounds), so I really see zero upside in keeping a young guy that looks okay against scrubs in the preseason over Allen who has proven that he can play safety (both FS and SS) in our system and do it at a solid level (he played reasonably well during last year's playoff run).

 

I want to clear up some confusion here if I can. There are two separate but valid discussions that are getting muddled here. When Steelersrule6 posted his link to a story about keeping 3 QB's as being antiquated and a waste of a roster spot, I challenged that because it is a myth, for the most part. Putting Landry Jones on the PS and only carrying 2 QB's into the season doesn't mean that someone else will get that spot and be productive. It is basically a crap shoot because the likelihood that a 6th WR or 3rd string lineman making an impact are slim. I made the claim that the myth is more often brought up by beat writers trying to make a story or fans who want a project guy on the team(fan favorite) I've done it myself.

Now that claim brought up the discussion of project guys on the PS and being poached while veterans with little tread left on them get to keep a spot which lead to Mac and Glenn's debate. The two topics are not mutually exclusive and the wasted roster spot myth can come into play when talking about young talent getting a shot over vets.

I hope that clears up some confusion. For what its worth if it came down to having Will J make the team as a fullback with 4 TE's as well but placing Jones on PS I'd be ok with that but it won't happen because they would keep Jones on the 53 and place a 7/8th DB on the PS or 3rd string OL that is just the way teams work.

 

By jove I think your onto something here!

 

Thanks for the recap, thorn. I stepped away from the thread for a few days and couldn't see how it got on to Will Allen...

 

nobody in mind, we have a lot of guys vying for that spot though. we will see as we go. as long as will a. and golden are kept as depth we will never have anyone with or getting the expierience for the future. if golden isn't getting playing time by now, why have him?

will allen was let go and then cut by dallas when we needed safety help. we brought him back and he still wasn't capable of starting over an injured mitchell last year. he hasn't made alot of plays for us the whole time he's been here. he has been on the field a good deal though because we had nobody else. i guess some see that as must have.

there will be some give and take in the knowledge vs. athletic ability standpoint. remember though guys like dangerfield and ventrone are not brand new to our defense. they have been around here for a couple of years now and should know the defense a little better than a draft pick or UDFA. we also have a draft pick that may or may not be capable of playing. again time will tell.

i see WA as more of the same of what we have reluctantly gotten rid of over the last couple of years but worse because he could never break the starting lineup. the troys, keisels, smiths, hamptons, taylors, etc. are gone because father time caught up to them. WA isn't close to they're levels and is a must keep? everyone gripes about the youth not seeing the field early enough and a WA will keep that alive for some young guy without the starter ability that the others had.

as thorn said this is a backup role but with the history of our new starters at the safety spot we are not talking about a guy that won't dress on game day. another thing is WA doesn't play ST's. another reason to have to keep an extra guy because of that. he essentially takes two spots up on game day and off of the 53. his wisdom doesn't counter the play he brings over youth and the fact that that youth won't get field time for the future of this defense if he's here taking the spot over someone.

to keep it as a landry jones thread, jones only takes one spot to keep because qb's are not expected to play ST's. backup safeties should. will doesn't.

will can play some short game reserve duty but we will suffer with the longer ball if he has to step in. it will put more pressure on mitchell or shark and the defense as a whole trying to run down the seam with a guy or coming accross the field and into the picture late, where youth and speed can. the youth will eventually learn where to line up and that's the only real strength that WA brings. we have coaches for teaching and don't really need WA for that.

 

He's talking about Kraig Urbik, we drafted him with a 3rd round pick, he came from an Oline factory at wisconsin and was a 4 year starter with 50 career starts at guard, we didnt give this kid a chance and just dumped him for no reason, shows how ignorant this coaching staff is, hes starting his 6th season with the bills and should be playing here instead...

 

Keith Urbik could not beat out Ramon Foster for a backup spot. He did not start last year until the 5th or 6th game. He may not even be a starter this year. He was asked to take a pay cut. And this is while on one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL. I'm thinking you are talking about another Urbik? Otherwise, we will have to disagree on the "dumped", "ignorant", and "should be playing here".

 

agreed. there was also the kid from penn st. the center we had on the PS. he went on to be a starter I believe. we do however have a much better coach for the o-line now then we did at that point. I'm still not giving Colbert much in the way of props for o-line picks over the years though. pretty iffy.

 

Shipley but he is now a back up.