trade rumours

seems the coboys want to trade up for m.gordon since is rumoured he will not pass the rats ,maybe detroit ... we can be a perfect partner for them and we can trade only 5 picks down . we can ask us their third rounder

 

I'd be happy to trade down in the first, if the top CB/OLB are off the board. I'm not sure we could get their 3rd for only 5 picks, without pitching in a pick of our own. Another route would be to send them our 3rd in exchange for their 2nd.

 

Oh I'd be all for that! I think the money in this draft is in the 2nd round.

 

there are 100 points between the 27 and 22 , the dallas third round is 136 , , any way i would contact dallas gm before the draft to arrange a possible trade ,if at 22 there is nothing special ....

 

I'd love to trade down a little. How bad you want him Jerry?!

 

how many picks can we fit on the team? just make the right 8 picks and move on.

 

Let's hope that we've learned how to draft 2nd rounders (Bell & Tuitt are most recent)..... Prior to that..... hmmmm Mike Adams, Marcus Gilbert, Jason Worlids, Limas Sweed, Lamar Woodley, Bryant McFadden, Ricardo Colclough...... not exactly a grade A report card for 2nd round draft history.

 

Worilds decided football wasn't for him. He wasn't a bad pick. As for Woodley, you can't predict injuries. The others, can't argue with!

 

I'd say 3 and a half of those picks were wins. If it's pass/fail, I give a pass to McFadden, Woodley, Worilds, and Gilbert. And then obviously Bell, and I have high hopes for Tuitt. Hell, I still like the Sweed pick. Not what happened after the pick, but I like the pick.

If you go all the way back in Colbert's tenure, you also get Alonzo Jackson, Antwaan Randle El, Kendrell Bell, and Marvel Smith. That's 3 out of 4. Overall I'd give him 9 out of 13.

2000 - Marvel Smith - hit
2001 - Kendrell Bell - hit
2002 - Antwaan Randle El - hit
2003 - Alonzo Jackson - miss
2004 - Ricardo Colclough - miss
2005 - Bryant McFadden - hit
2007 - LaMarr Woodley - hit
2008 - Limas Sweed - miss
2010 - Jason Worilds - hit
2011 - Marcus Gilbert - hit
2012 - Mike Adams - miss
2013 - Le'Veon Bell - hit
2014 - Stephon Tuitt - ?

Take out Tuitt, for whom I'm projecting, and you get 8 out of 12, 67%. Who should we compare him to? The mighty Patriots?

2000 - Adrian Klemm - miss
2001 - Matt Light - hit
2002 - Deion Branch - hit
2003 - Eugene Wilson - hit
2003 - Bethel Johnson - miss
2004 - Marquise Hill - miss
2006 - Chad Jackson - miss
2008 - Terrence Wheatley - miss
2009 - Patrick Chung - hit
2009 - Ron Brace - miss
2009 - Darius Butler - miss - mixed success, but cut from Pats after 2 years.
2009 - Sebastian Vollmer - hit
2010 - Rob Gronkowski - hit
2010 - Jermaine Cunningham - miss
2010 - Brando Spikes - hit
2011 - Ras-I Dowling - miss
2011 - Shane Vereen - hit
2012 - Tavon Wilson - ? - big rookie season, nothing in two years since.
2013 - Jamie Collins - hit
2013 - Aaron Dobson - ? - big rookie season, nothing last year. Heading into make-or-break season.
2014 - Jimmy Garoppolo - ? - no idea yet.

That's 9 out of 18, for 50%.

And 11 of those 18 (61%) were drafted in the top half of the round (because they do so much trading), compared to only 5 of our 12 (42%).

...So, what constitutes an "A" grade?

 

^ Nice breakdown!

 

I would even consider Adams a hit. He's as much of a starting RT in this league as most of the guys out there, including our own Gilbert. Plus it's not out of the question to expect him to still improve.

Colclough, Jackson and Sweed would be my misses. And Sweed only because of his after-the-fact mental issues.

I hope we get as many 2nd round picks as we can with that track record!

 

McFadden wasn't a bad pick at cb, he just was never healthy. he could have been really good if it wasn't for the ankle troubles that lingered his whole career.

 

I like this a lot I have said in other threads that rounds 2-4 could be big for us and any extra picks would be great. Maybe this is the year it happens....

 

Without that draft pick, we don't even make it to the 2005 AFCCG, let alone win a Super Bowl.

 

I don't particularly care to trade down. I would consider it if somebody wants to overpay for the pick and we only move back a few slots... I would never in my wildest dreams want this team to trade out of the first round entirely. No need to give up our best asset for a bunch of mediocre draft picks.

Id find it hard to imagine a scenario where there isn't somebody still available at 22 that we really like.

 

That's assuming 2nd round picks are mediocre and 1st round picks are great. You can often find great value in the 2nd/3rd rounds. I'd take Antwaan Randle El and Chris Hope over just Kendall Simmons, wouldn't you? A couple years ago, 2013, I would have been thrilled to have a bunch of picks in rounds 2-3. It seemed like the talent pool was bottomless.

The difference between #32 and #33 is exactly one pick. It's the same as the difference between #31 and #32. The rest is all mental, and getting caught up in that and caring about such arbitrary things will make you draft worse players.

 

That's true. I forgot about that, and it's something to consider. But even so, you have to take what you can get - you probably aren't going to get to dictate terms and get whatever you want from whoever you want like in a video game, and to me the 5th round option is less important than getting the right number of picks and drafting the right guy. I get the sense some people would want to stay in the first round not because of the 5th year option, but because, "I don't want to pick at #33! That guy won't be any good!"

While we're at it, you save over a million dollars drafting at #33 compared to #32.

 

I'd take just Ben Roethlisberger over a package of Ricardo Colclough and Limas Sweed haha Of course not every second round pick is terrible and every first round pick is awesome. I wouldn't call LeVeon Bell a mediocre pick... What I mean is that 22 is the best we can pick without giving up assets. Moving back 5 spots for an extra third rounder seems almost pointless to me. I would think you have a better shot at drafting a good player with a single first round pick than you do drafting a good player out of two third round picks. Why give up our best asset for two lesser assets that when added together by some arbitrary chart comes out equal? I guess I just view it differently. I consider 5 spots in the first round to be a very significant gap. I don't necessarily view a third round pick equal to the value those 5 spots represent in my mind.

Again, if someone wants to overpay I'd consider it. But a lot can happen in 5 spots. Someone can draft the guy you like. Someone could trade up in front of you to draft the guy you like. I just don't see a player as having value at 27 and not having value at 22... I feel like there will be someone available to us that we like enough to pick at 22. It would be really hard to envision a scenario where that doesn't happen.

 

in this draft after the first 15 players there are 50 that is a toss up so i will trade down at least one time but even two times

 

That's why you don't make the trade 3 weeks before the draft, you make it when you're on the clock. If all the guys you wanted at 22 are gone, and the next highest guy on your board figures to still be around 10 spots later, why not trade back and get him, and then enjoy a bonus player? Or maybe there are 3 guys you'd be happy with, and you're certain at least one of them will still be there if you trade back 5 spots? Then you can still get your guy, and enjoy a bonus player.

The third round is not some desert wasteland! Tomlin's 3rd rounders: Matt Spaeth, Bruce Davis, Kraig Urbik, Mike Wallace, Keenan Lewis, Emmanuel Sanders, Curtis Brown, Sean Spence (who I honestly think would be a stud right now if not for his injury), Markus Wheaton, Dri Archer.

10 players
2 busts
4 solid starters
3 major starters
1 TBD (seemed like a reach anyway)

Even if you average out those guys, and land on someone like Spaeth or Wheaton, getting an additional player of that caliber can make a huge difference to your team. You can also use it as ammunition to trade up at some point.

The issue is you're automatically assuming that who you take at 22 has to be better than trading back and taking someone at 28. You're assuming there's a sacrifice, a dropoff in the quality of player you get. That's not necessarily true. There's a dropoff in the number of available options, but depending on who you want, there might be zero dropoff in quality. It might even be the same exact guy.

 

Not sure I'd agree on Kendrell Bell or Worlids, they were good players for us for just a short period of time. One way I would define success is to re-sign the player past their rookie contract. That being said, we'd be at a 50% pass rate. Not a huge difference, as in school work it's the difference from a D or an F.