The Mike Tomlin record against bad teams

I don't know what to call this ineptitude with losing to inferior teams. I think its psychological for this team. I think they need to bring in some sports psychiatry expert to find out what's going on.

I don't know another team in the league that has this problem. If you are a bad team you lose to everyone with the occasional win. If you have a good team you win most of the time with the occasional lost. But with the Steelers it is getting to the point they beat or even play well against good teams or lose or struggle against bad teams. This is a mentally terrible team.

 

I think we should also look at the records since 2011 if we want to benchmark the Patriots challenges to the Steelers against weaker opponent's.

2011
Steelers - 12-4
Pats - 13- 3

2012
Steelers - 8-8
Pats - 12 -4

2013
Steelers - 8-8
Pats - 12- 4

2014
Steelers - 6-4
Pats - 7-2

The above shows 10 wins more total for the Pats over the last 3.5 seasons. That is 2.85 wins more per season than the Steelers for the Pats which makes losing or having challenges against weaker opponents less mute. In addition the Pats have made the playoffs all 3 years with the Steelers only making the playoffs 1 year and losing to Tebow.

 

Yeah, but the Pats lost to the flipping Ravens in the AFC Championship game. The Steelers beat the Ravens in the AFCC on the way to a Superbowl 43 win! And the Steelers have the most recent Superbowl win!

So, they're even!

 

Agree the Steelers have the most recent Super Bowl win but was trying to show the results of recent records considering challenges with weaker opponents.

 

Yes. You have four more years to go. And you've described a team with just FOUR LOSSES against bad teams over the past 3+ seasons. I think we'd take that.

Pats: 9 squeaker wins and 4 losses
Steelers: 6 squeaker wins and 10 losses (not counting the playoff loss to Denver)

Thanks for proving our point. So continue.

 

I'm not denying that the Steelers don't play down to their competition. They always have. Even under Cowher. Except for a few games here and there, they never blow anyone out. Never have. For decades. And yes they do seem to lose more than their share of these close games under Tomlin than Cowher.

But my point is that EVERY team in the NFL has these kinds of games. You notice the Steelers simply because you follow them, but you could probably talk to a fan of every single NFL team and they could compile a list similar to yours. I took 30 minutes and did it for the mighty Patriots going back 4 seasons. Have they won more of those close games than the Steelers over that time? Sure. But you are talking about the team that has been the model of consistency for over a decade. A team with a top all time QB. Still they have these games and that is my point. The Giants, the Chargers, the Bengals, the Saints, the list goes on to include ALL 32 teams, they all have games they "should" win but don't, or win ugly. Its the nature of the league. Any given Sunday.

What I'd really like to point out though is the red bolded statement. Really? You'd take that? You'd take the Patriots just 9-4 record (and surely better if I'd go back to 2007) in squeaker games over the Steelers? That's amazing because what exactly has that gotten them since 2007? Answer? Absolutely nothing. Nothing but a bunch of regular season wins and two Super Bowl losses during the time that Tomlin has been HC of the Steelers. Meanwhile for all of his shortcomings and inconsistencies Tomlin has at least produced a SB winner for you. In fact since 2007 only the Steelers, Patriots, and Giants have made two Super Bowl appearances with only the Giants (another maddeningly inconsistent hot and cold schizophrenic team) having more wins than Pittsburgh. Sure the Pats are more consistent regular season performer and Belichick is the master at winning regular season games, but the ultimate goal just isn't there. Be careful what you wish for.

(this is the time where you reply that Tomlin won with Cowher's players)

 

I know. I'm just poking fun at this stuff. I know most fans pretty much hate Tomlin.

 

Does this make Hoody the coaching version of P.Manning?

 

It seems. But we will have to review the tape to be sure (pun intended).

 

Nice one.

 

Yes. Because if the Steelers only lose four of those games, they're winning their division in 2012 and 2013. I am not suggesting a correlation between winning squeakers and winning titles. But you can't get to the Super Bowl if you can't get to the playoffs. And what has cost the Steelers playoff berths in 2009, 2012, and 2013 is the stinkeroo losses. I'm only "wishing for" a better record against those bad teams. Anything beyond that, as in a wish for the Steelers to BE the Patriots, is pure assumption on your part.

So I think I speak for all Steelers fans. We'd much rather be 9-4 against bad teams than 6-10. Yes?

 

Im not assuming that you want the Steelers to be the Patriots, but rather Im pointing out that the Patriots (Belichick since this thread is about HCs) have their shortcomings too. Sure we all want as many wins as possible especially against poor teams, and Tomlin doesn't do as well as Belichick in that area, but taken as a whole he's not as bad of a coach as you're making him out to be. He may struggle more against lesser teams that BB, but at least he's delivered you a championship.

Playing down to their opponents and losing to teams they should beat (and winning ugly) has been a hallmark of the Steelers since long before Tomlin. People forget, but under Cowher....


1998
The Steelers lose both games to the Bengals by a combined total of 5 points. The Bengals win a total of THREE games all year. They finish 7-9. Had they won those two games they make the playoffs at 9-7.

1999
The Steelers are embarrassed by losing to the reincarnated Browns (who went 2-14) 16-15 and then follow that up 2 weeks later by losing at home to the Bungles (4-12) 27-20. Win those games and they're 8-8.

2000
The Steelers start out 0-3 and rebound to miss the playoffs at 9-7. The second of those 3 losses? The lowly reincarnated Browns again who finish with 3 wins. Win that game, they finish 10-6 and make the playoffs over Indy by way of a better conference record. Also that year were 2 defeats to the 7-9 (5-11 if the Steelers beat them) Titans.

2001
Steelers (13-3) lose on opening day to Jacksonville (6-10). Also lose in week 15 to the Bengals (6-10) in OT

2002
Lose to the EXPANSION Texans 24-6 at home

2003
Embarrassed by the 5-11 Browns 33-13. Lost 6-0 to the 6-10 Jets.

2006
Defending SB Champs lose to the 8-8 Jaguars 9-0.
Lose to the 2-14 Oakland Raiders 20-13.
If they win just one of those games, they make the playoffs.


So lets not romanticise too much about Cowher, he was almost the same as Tomlin. Admittedly under Tomlin they do lose more of the close games than they win but I think thats more of a function of the type of offense. IMO Cowher's heavy running, grind out the clock offensive style is better suited to win the close game than the pass oriented offense of Tomlin. And Tomlin's offense is more of a reflection of the type of game that the NFL has become and the fact that they now have a bonafide franchise QB.

 

This is a very insightful post. Nice reply.

 

A head coach compared to the last coach is not good. We as fans do fantasize about the good old days. I just hope we go on a 2005 run Into the playoffs. I think it will happen.

 

Trust me, we haven't forgotten. A list like this has been up before, and that 2002 stinker to the Texans was ranked as one of the worst loses ever--but also a pure, 100% fluke.

But let me play Devil's Advocate for a moment. The 1998 and 99 teams weren't very good. The 2000 team had Kent Graham at QB to start the season. The 2003 and 2006 teams were good teams but also two of Cowher's worst coaching jobs--I don't think he or anyone else gave a $#!t in 2006 and the results showed it. Both of those seasons sort of show how coaching (lack thereof) results in those kinds of losses. Cowher would probably say that 2006 was a horror story--and after learning of his wife's cancer, perhaps we now know why.

Where the debate comes in is whether or not the 2011-2014 teams have been any good. If it's been a bad team (and admittedly one watered down by injuries), then the results shouldn't be surprising. But I'd like the think the talent is there. The team we're seeing is better than 8-8.

 

Rukus, here are the results from 92-97, Cowher's first six seasons:

1992
Steelers "dominate" but can't put away the Bengals on MNF...not sure this one counts, because the Steelers were never really in danger, but they should have been up by more than 10 going into the 4th. Have a look at this stat sheet: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/199210190pit.htm (This is the infamous game where Gary Reasons tugged Dave Shula's hat down over his eyes while coming off the field!)
Steelers get crushed 30-6 at (5-11) Chicago

1993
At L.A., Steelers get shut out 27-0 to the lowly Rams in Kevin Greene's return.
Not sure these count: but in the final two weeks, with the playoffs on the line, the Steelers struggle against two bad/mediocre teams, Seattle and Clevelend. They lose at Seattle and squeak by at home against the Browns.

1994
Steelers go into Seattle (a 6-10 team) and get blown out 30-13 (by the way...the Steelers' record in the mountain and pacific time zone is horrendous! Even in the 70s!)
Steelers build an early 14-0 lead against the Bengals and then hold on.
Steelers lose in OT to the Cardinals. Not sure it counts, as the cards were 8-8 under Buddy Ryan. Also: check that time zone, LOL!

1995
Loss at home to (8-8) Vikings. Hmmm. Iffy.
This one: loss at expansion Jacksonville. Yikes!!!!!

1996*
Three bad losses here:
at Cincy
at Houston
at Baltimore (their first season as the Ravens, with Bam Morris at RB!)
and a squeaker against a bad Atlanta team
*Mike Tomczak at QB

1997
On Sunday night, Steelers nearly lose to winless Indy...who, btw, defeats defending SB champs Green bay the following week
On Thanksgiving weekend, Steelers struggle against rookie Jake Plummer. A Joe Nedney missed FG at the end of regulation allows Steelers to win in OT.

I will qualify some of these, however. The Steelers never had a mature a pass attack, except for 1995 (which, surprise, is when they ended up in the Super Bowl). I am not trying to make excuses for Cowher, but he never really had the prototypical QB. And free agency had just begun (with signing bonuses NOT counting). The Steelers' roster started getting picked apart, and Cowher somehow managed to compete. I remember thinking: if the Steelers can just get on an equal playing field, they can become more dominant.

 

cowher had his faults too but with an elite qb the job vs bad teams should be easier , now i think ben is not too elite vs bad teams somehow is not focus as vs better opponents

 

It's not just Ben. It's the whole offense. The O-Line didn't necessarily look stellar against the Jets.

 

I can dig it. But such a change will not come overnight. That's why I'm willing to be patient with the current HC. He's changing the way Steeler offense has worked for years under Cowher. Even when Cowher got ahold of Ben, he didn't let the pass attack go unchecked. Cowher still believed in the ground and pound. Run the ball. Burn the clock.

Tomlin is blazing new territory. Under Tomlin, fans may finally see games where the Steelers clearly blow their opponents out. Many fans (particularly on this board) have been yelling for that for several years (including complaints against Cowher for it).

I guess there will just be a divide amongst fans regarding the HC.

 

I just wish that just once Tomlin would throw the political correct speech out the window and tell it like it really is when losing to underachieving teams.

His post game pressers are really uninspiring whether the Steelers win or lose. Maybe that changes behind close doors but I wouldn't really think all that much that it does.

Rip on Bellicheat all anyone wants but his post loss pressers are full of sporadic off cuff borderline derogatory answers to the media and they usually follow up crappy performances with straight forward successful results. I hate the guy but I have to give credit where credit is due.

 

A lot of that can be contributed to Cowher having a firm grasp on what he wanted his teams to be. a team identity and he looked for talent that was plug and play for what he envisioned his team to be, he did make some choices that were outside of his norm like Kordell but for the most part you saw guys that fit the team. One of my biggest complaints about Tomlin is he doesn't seem to have an overall team identity. If you listen to him he talks about how every new 53 writes their own story and the course of the season revels who they are, which is true to a point but I would like to see him use kind of philosophy to mold his teams into a consistent vision of what he thinks his teams should be. Maybe that is unfair of me but I really came of age in terms of football with Bill Cowher and so maybe I'm spoiled by having that consistent team identity the only blip in it being that year they went full K-gun with Maddox and realized the only reason it worked the year before was because teams were loading the box to stop Bettis, without the threat of a run game they jumped all over Tommy and the K-gun.

 

Honestly, I've came to the conclusion that the "identity" of a Tomlin team is a team that starts the season slow, plays bad on the road, is wildly inconsistent, has poor clock management, and then picks up steam as the season rolls on. Also I think of Tomlin teams as really stubborn as well. I honestly feel like it would be beneficial for us to play all of our division games after about the 5th or 6th week of the season. If that were possible I would be all for it. I hate playing the rats early.

 

Honestly, the "Tomlinisms" get on my nerves as well but the truth is if you listen to any NFL coach speak you will see that they all just stand there and utter nothing. They don't give anything away. They say nothing. They talk in generalities. There is a reason that the only sorta "memorable" pressers are generally guys being mad. It is because the other 99.9% of the time they literally just stand there and talk about how "good of a football team we just played" and how "those guys are better than their record" and blah blah blah. That is a league wide issue. I listened to a Mike McCarthy presser the other day and he said "obviously" a lot and I was just cracking up about it. BTW I'm with Bill Parcells when he said "no you are NOT better than your record". But I digress.