Resurrecting an old argument about Ben

I'm sure Blast, TTF, BFT and some other veterans on this board remembers when a common debate used to be whether or not Ben put in sufficient study time to elevate his game to the next level. I always thought that Ben lacked the study habits necessary to even remotely have the kind of success of some of the more studious quarterbacks (P. Manning, Brees Brady). This article brought that old argument back to my mind and it has me wondering once again. How much time is Ben spending in the film room? How much is he studying the tendencies of his opponents? What is he doing to try to help his team exploit the weaknesses of the defense? How much of a leader is he REALLY? Ben used to do it with sheer physicality. He CANNOT do that anymore and must step up his intellectual game. Maybe he's incapable of doing so.

http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/6916060-74/steelers-roethlisberger-browns#axzz3Fz0OQgsk

 

Not sure you can blame his study habits on his poor performance today. Like most everyone on this Board, we don't know how much time Ben puts in studying the current week's opponent. I will say, being at the game today, he didn't have many open receivers. Not sure if that is an indication of the receiving corps or the play structure, but there weren't many open receivers. And when there were, i.e. Wheaton wide open in the end zone, Ben laid an egg.

 

Early in the game he hit Wheaten between the 1 and the 1 is what I heard on the radio. I don't need television to tell me that all the study in the world won't help much if players cant catch the ball.

 

To play devil's advocate, is one "on the money" pass an indication that Ben has spent sufficient time in the film room to know where best to attack and exploit the opposing defense's tendencies in certain situations throughout the game? Just asking. Ben's always relied on superior physical ability, not intellect, and he can't do that any more.

 

I don't know that Ben doesn't have good study habits, I suspect he does. But one thing that is different about Ben vs Brady, Manning etc, is that Ben has come to rely (and successfully so) on his street ball instincts. So when things go wrong on a particular play, rather than work through the structure, Ben improvises, it's not that he doesn't know the play, the check downs, the D's tendencies, he just doesn't use that information. And because his WRs know this they don't bother to learn within the structure either. A game doesn't go by where Brady and Manning arent tearing a receiver a new one for not following the play and the reads and options.. You don't see Ben do this often. why? Because both Ben and WRs know that if the play is not there as called, there is no plan B other than Ben running around double pumping.

Now, this has upside as well as downside. But it does minimize the utility of deep film study.

 

One of the things I wonder about Ben is if the early start to his career stunted some growth that may have developed if he would have had a year or two to develop like a Rodgers. I always felt one of the problems with Kordell is they or he took too much of his natural game away by trying to make him a pocket passer and Kordell was never going to be a pocket passer.

To some extent I feel the same w/Ben. Yes he can throw from the pocket and it is not even comparable to Kordell, but he has always seemed more comfortable throwing outside the pocket and on the move. I know Ben can't move the way he used to, but I have never understood why they or Ben wouldn't want to keep some plays in the playbook that provide an opportunity to do boots or rollouts. I just don't think is ever going to be the prototypical pocket passer.

 

Also one other thing. I have listened to steelersdepot podcasts a few times and they love Ben, but they have made comments that Ben often will not make the throw unless his receiver is "college open" - i.e. pretty much wide open. That kind of play kills you in the red zone where you need to make quicker and tighter throws because there isn't as much space. You have to admit, Ben does not connect on a lot of passes where he hits his receiver in stride. So it may not be so much film study - as Ben just isn't really comfortable making a throw unless he thinks it is more of a sure thing.

 

I think there may be some truth to this post. I would be inclined to say that Ben trusts his eyes more than his head, based on the small sample I see of his play.

 

Wheaton was wide open in the end zone. What happened there?

 

I think the Steelers Depot guys are right about college open.

I feel Ben was better in the Redzone in his first two years with Whiz calling the plays.

They used to have that great quick slant play with Hines or the TE that alway seemed to work to score a TD. I don't know if Ben was just more fearless threading the needle in his younger days or they just don't have that play in the playbook anymore, I just don't know?

Ben isn't a West Coast guy, he is not efficient enough. I still prefer him in the early days. Run the ball, let him work the play action passing, and let him do something special on his own on 3rd downs.

 

Just like my take..Ben is better suited to be a game manager..He lacks the leadership and the Football IQ to lead a offense to be dominate....A lot will say how do I know that ? Because the proof is in the pudding , we have had elite type stats for years , but never elite in scoring...Arians tried multiple different plans in the Redzone I am watching Haley try different approaches as well ,,,,granted none have been using Ben as a game manager and that's exactly the problem...

So no need to sign Ben to a huge contract we can find a QB who can mange a game better than Ben....We can find a QB who is a better Team leader ...Teams with good Team leaders at QB hardly ever play down to the competition...We do all the time...

If Tomlin is a Coach worth a salt he will go to Haley and force him to turn Ben back into a game manager...He will force Haley to insert DHB over Moore and Wheaton he is the better Run Blocker .....He will also move up M.B. from the practice squad because he is more physical as well...Not only move him up ,but force Haley to use him...

Throw the 5 WR playbook crap out and insert a playbook with PA passes all in it...If Ben wants college open throws that's a good place to start...

Coach T should also go to Coach DL. and tell him we are going to 4 down D.L and we will blitz heavy up the middle or we will drop in zone coverage,,,we are not good enough to disguise coverage we are not good enough at CB to guard Teams so tell him the 3-4 will not work and we are changing right now have your guys on the field at 6 AM screw the CBA...

 

I still think ben hears footsteps more than he use to. I mean who could blame him. that has to affect a person

 

I read these arguments and I wonder if anyone has watched recorded games of the past. I remember watching Manning and how well he played when he gets hit at least once a series, look no further at Brady, he was ready to quit this year because they got rid of Logan Mankins and he was taking a beating. The point is that when those guys got hit, their offense looked a lot like ours. The thing that "Ben isn't a west cost guy" is ridiculous, we never had the personnel to run that which requires a few different elements besides a QB. Watch our receivers when the get hit with short passes, they drop them, the only one who seems to be able to do the short route execution is Bell and he is the RB. The other thing you need for that is blocking at the second level, if AB is the receiver, well he is on his own because the group of receivers on the field now don't block well, the hated bubble screen, when BA would call it we normally got yards, now it gets beat because someone misses a block almost every time. What I'm saying is we need to look at just more than the QB, and just to reinforce something, even when he gets a clean pocket to throw from, there is still guys getting close to him on a regular basis, yes, it is probably hurting more to take those hits but the OC needs to recognize what kind of o-line and receivers are on the roster and it needs to be done in practice which it makes it look like they don't practice. I got mad at the way BA ran the offense but looking back, it appears he knew what he was doing, you can't run a precision offense when your o-line may not hold up on certain plays or your receivers may not be in position to execute their blocks, Hines Ward made those guys block but he isn't there and it looks as if nobody cares. So don't put it all on Ben, I think he gets a little too much blame but he does deserve some, I agree with that but there are things to get fixed like the red-zone play calling, that is on the oc .

 

I think we need to look at Richard Mann. He was brought out of semi-retirement to coach our receivers and so far has done a terrible job in getting this group up to par. Other than Antonio Brown, DHB, M. B. Lance Moore, J. Brown are not scaring defenses.

 

I'll respond the same way I always have to this argument. If everyone could be Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, there would be a lot more of them running around. If all it took to be a great QB was film study ... Chad Pennington would be on his way to the Hall of Fame. He's not. Guys are what they are, and they all max out at different levels. Ben was never going to be the guy that was going to dissect defenses. In case no one has noticed ... he's kind of a meathead.

 

How 'bout Potatohead!

 

Meathead lol.

I cant decided if Ben was off yesterday or if the receivers weren't running the route he thought they were going to? Either way, WHY is this happening? I saw Ben motioning to the receivers a lot after a bad throw indicating to me that they were not on the same page. Don't they practice these routes? Our whole team is just not on the same page and I don't get why.

 

It doesn't have to be one or the other. It can be both, and it usually is.

 

I happen to believe that Ben has the capacity to be a "headier" quarterback. I just think he's a little on the lazy side when it comes to the time he puts in in the film room and off the field preparation.

 

So you were being sarcastic with all of your responses.