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Hoorays and Boos for the Win vs. Cleveland

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by HugeSnack, Sep 7, 2014.

  1. SteelTerp

    SteelTerp Well-Known Member

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    [video=youtube;7DY0SLHAxgM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DY0SLHAxgM[/video]

    hooray for our first week 1 win since this ancient game (big ben suspended)
     
  2. scruffy

    scruffy Well-Known Member

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    No wonder Ben thinks our no huddle will be extreemely good, look what defense he is practicing against. :facepalm: :roflmao:


    scruffy
     
  3. Ray D

    Ray D Staff Member Mod Team

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    That... that's a little too true to be funny. :huh:
     
  4. blountforcetrauma

    blountforcetrauma Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. I'm thinking maybe you might be right there. Some things are just "too" true. LOL.
     
  5. Wardismvp

    Wardismvp Well-Known Member

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    Wait a minute SE, don't you realize that KC/MT/DL walk on water. Greatest since sliced bread.There above everybody else, they don't need to make ADJUSTMENTS personnel moves ,line up changes.
    This team needs to be seriously coached up and MOTIVATED. It is just not there.
    I am personally tired of the lack of leadership at the top.
     
  6. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    I don't really think it's motivation. I think the players play hard to win, and have all the motivation that they need. I think that the offense is solid enough at this point to average 24 points/game, which is very respectable (as long as Ben and the line stay healthy).

    That brings us to the defense. At this point, it seems like LeBeau still doesn't have an answer for up tempo offenses. His scheme is predicated on giving the QB a number of confusing looks and forcing the offense to guess/react to what it's seeing. Against up tempo, no huddle offenses, we lose that element and have to play more vanilla - plus our guys have to sort through what they're seeing from the offense and figure out their assignments quickly. Put another way, the defense is designed to force the offense to react to what we're doing, but when facing up tempo, the offense is dictating to use what we're doing. That's why I asked the question - is LeBeau losing his fastball? Sad is it makes me feel to say this, I think he is. I think he needs some help installing tweaks to help simplify the situation for the guys on the field when opponents go up tempo. That's just my view.
     
  7. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Heaven forbid if the players are ever held accountable for failing to do what they are taught in practice every day.
     
  8. blountforcetrauma

    blountforcetrauma Well-Known Member

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    This is something that someone brought up on Cooler Talk the other day. He said we always talk about how complicated DL's scheme is for the young guys to figure out. But he said opposing qb's don't seem to have a problem with it at all. I personally don't think that DL has "lost his touch" or whatever. You just have to have guys that execute and Sunday we only executed in the first half. Well either that or the clowns failed to execute. I think there is no doubt that the hurry up is a weak point for this defense. (See Philly's 2nd and 3rd stringers pwning it up and down the field with Mark Sanchez)
     
  9. Busman

    Busman

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    I tend to agree with this.. They struggled on defense not because of scheme but execution. JJ did not have a very good game at all and pretty much was taken out of the game by their LT.

    Ike was usually not very near the ball. Gay was about the best on D for the group.

    I am hopeful these are just the preseason woes lol.. Game 1 woes :)

    To have a team down 27-3 at half time and let them up to almost beat you is just not acceptable . If the boys cant close a game without giving us all heart failure we are again in for a very long season
     
  10. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    I agree too. let's not forget , their LT is joe Thomas. he's the best in the league and JJ got a sack on him. that's a pretty tough assignment for JJ all day. he did pretty well, but yes there is room for improvement. by all of them.

    new parts all over the place on defense. all those parts have to learn to play together. the d-line is still learning to play together. lots of new parts and guys at different positions may take a little time.:cool:
     
  11. Busman

    Busman

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    Thanks MAC.. Good points. I agree with everything. I could not think of the LT for Cleveland lol... I have All Timers and not Sometimers or Alzheimer's lol
     
  12. HugeSnack

    HugeSnack Well-Known Member

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    I'm a JJ supporter myself, but his sack came against TE Jordan Cameron, not Joe Thomas. It was still a good sack. He bumped the other TE and then zoomed right by Cameron and nailed Hoyer. I do believe people need to cut Jones slack when playing the Browns. Thomas just about erases every pass rusher he faces.
     
  13. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    So, our defense has consistently struggled for years against tempo (see past blowout losses to New England when they went no - huddle in non 2 minute drills before it was in vogue), with a variety of players over those years, and it's on the players? If a few players fail to execute, and it's corrected by changing players or better teaching those players, then sure, it's logical to conclude that the players were the issue. When an entire defense consistently struggles against a certain type of offense, it's the coaches' responsibility to correct the issues. Coaches have to lead, and they have to put the players in a position to be successful- even if it means changing tendencies. We'll see how this defense does against the inevitable up tempo offense that we'll see Thursday night. Unless DL adapts his approach to dealing with tempo, I think we're in for a rough night.
     
  14. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    Tomlin hiring also brought the Steelers their sixth Super Bowl, not that he gets all the credit. I will take a few of struggling as the team transitions from some of the older great players that were here.
     
  15. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    I disagree. What they have done in years past really has no bearing on this squad, lot of new pieces in place. And I don't recall being attacked with up tempo offenses as much as a short passing game and that was limited to QB's like Brady, Brees and Rodgers who picked us a part.

    I really doubt a guy that knows as much about football as DL does is having a hard time figuring out todays offenses. I just dont buy that. Execution is usually much more the culprit then coaching. Every player from peewee on up knows how to tackle but we consistently miss tackles and can't shed blocks, how much more can a coach do to get that through someones head.
     
  16. Busman

    Busman

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    Agreed.. Why is it so difficult for people to understand ? We have some of the best coaches assembled in football. Dick Lebeau, Mike Tomlin, Mike Munchak., Haley And we have Jpeezy.. The first half of the game was borderline perfect so where did the team go after half. Two things happened in my estimation.

    1/ Steelers got complacent and went away from their game. Not uncommon. Seems to happen almost every year.
    2/ The defense was gased when Cleveland went into the upbeat no huddle tempo.. You could see how tired they were. Conditioning is up to the players and coaches. The CBA is partly responsible but every other team has the same rules. So go figure
     
  17. darcrav

    darcrav Well-Known Member

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    UMM
    YOU FORGOT HALEY
    :shrug:
     
  18. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    I remember a few short years ago our defense ate up NE one afternoon too. it's not the scheme. we are capable of making them look plain. it's a matter of the players doing it. I think this defense just needs some time to gel all the new moves and piece's together and we should see some better play as we go. we need the shark back healthy to help on the back end and support the run. we need healthy and playing time.:cool:
     
  19. takenoprisoners1

    takenoprisoners1 Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to add to the list of 'Hoorays' the clock/game management at the end of both halves. I think there may have been one situation when I'd have called a timeout sooner instead of spiking, but for the most part, the players/coaches seemed very aware of the situation on both offense and defense (kudos to Ben) and got what proved to be the winning points at the end of both halves. Normally, I'm fuming that we seem clueless as the clock is running down, but given that our clock/game management seems to cost us at least 1-2 chances to win per year, I'm hopeful it might not cost us as much this year. Our run defense on the other hand???????
     
  20. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    good points. the less confusion from the staff the smoother those parts of the game will be.

    it's going to take some games to gel from top to bottom. coaches, players offense and defense and ST's. it's why I talked about the preseason this year being so much more important then prior years and the schedule and our first 6 games. I think this will be about the time things should be getting in more sync together.

    lots of new faces and players at different positions. probably one of the teams with the most movement of players actually taking the field together. add coaches to that. they are learning to be a team. this season has hope, but we are going to have some bumps in the beginning.:cool:
     
  21. Busman

    Busman

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    YUP.. Sorry I did.. People are always busting his you know whats but he is a good OC and he demonstrated first half of game 1 that he can clearly call this offense
     
  22. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    Well, some of us are going to need to agree to disagree on whether DL'S scheming is effective against tempo. I know what my eyes tell me, and my eyes tell that we look consistently out of place, confused, late off the snap and do not execute. And yes, when a lack of execution occurs it is a coaching issue as much as a player issue. Also, I just read a post that says the issue is not our coaches, but then says that part of the problem Sunday was that we got complacent with a big lead, and it seems to happen every year. If that's not on the coaches, who is it on?

    I will say that I also see a talent issue, especially our front 3 which was mauled consistently. It wasn't the whole problem, but it was definitely a big problem Sunday.

    While we're on hoorays and boos, I'm going to give out another one of each: hooray to Wheaton! He looked like a legit #2 WR, and being on the same page with Ben on that last offensive snap when Ben changed his route was really good to see. My last boo goes out to BOTH offensive tackles for pass blocking. They were both beaten badly multiple times, and need to step it up.
     
  23. Iowasteeljim

    Iowasteeljim

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    As always I admit I am a Kool-Aid drinker when it comes to the Steelers (probably always will be). However, after this game even I have a hard time defending any of the coaches. I might give Haley a pass, for a half anyhow. In the 3rd quarter of the game I was cussing Tomlin and I have never done that before, same with DL. There is this imaginary hump that Tomlin just can't quite get over. I wish with all my heart he could learn to step on the gas for the entire game but I just don't think he can do. And DL...sitting at home I can figure out what he is going to throw at the offense and I'm no expert getting paid to figure it out. Sorry, I'm ranting but I don't think I have ever been this frustrated.
     
  24. Busman

    Busman

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    But your saying the same thing we are. Unless I misread what you have written you use the word execute. Players execute . No? Being out of place again comes back to player execution. Late off of snaps again is player execution. I do not think for one minute coaching is responsible for the inability for players to execute . Communication is crucial in this scheme and it would seem they are not communicating very well.

    I will give you comment about complacency.. It is the coaches responsibility to fire these guys up and have them playing 60 minutes of ball but I would argue short of coaches going out on the field themselves it still comes down to the players execution.

    Agree with you about Wheaton. He is showing signs of developing and becoming our #2 Wr.
     
  25. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    Execution is not just a player issue. It's on both coaches and players. Coaches are responsible for ensuring that the players understand their assignnents, and have the execution down. The coaches control who is in the game, and who has what responsibility on the field. If someone is not executing, the coach needs to make a substitution. When you see a lack of execution on a play here or there, or by 1 or 2 players who just don't get it, yeah that's a player issue that becomes a coaching issue if the coaches don't address it. When an entire unit looks lost for an extended period of time, that is a sign that there's something in play beyond just a few players not executing. We had a dress rehearsal for the up tempo run/pass offense in the Eagle game. To me it didn't look like we fixed any of the issues that were highlighted in that game.

    Now to be clear, I am not saying that DL is the sole issue confronting our defense. I think so so drafting for several years is the #1 issue. That's why we had to sign a mediocre talent like Cam Thomas, and also why we had to bring back a 35 year old Brett Keisel right before the season started. What I am saying is that DL pretty clearly had no answer for what the Browns were doing -which was very similar to what the Eagles did to us in the preseason. I hope he does figure it out, but I'm concerned. It's similar to our consistent issues for years stopping a short, quick passing game. In the Pats game in 2011, we finally broke from our standard scheme and surprised them with tight man coverage underneath. It took years for DL to get there. We don't have years to solve this new NFL trend if we're going to contend this year. Any OC worth his salt took note of what the Eagles and Browns were able to do, and we will be seeing it again. Ultimately it falls on the coaches to solve this problem and then ensure that the players who "get it" are on the field to execute.
     

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