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say we keep pouncey

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by mac daddyo, Dec 30, 2013.

  1. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Very.
     
  2. knab70

    knab70 Well-Known Member

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    If were rolling with Pouncy we better have a competent backup cause i'm leary of this boy's health going forward. Seems he's remmbered more for injuries then play's. Just saying!
     
  3. lersgofor7

    lersgofor7 Well-Known Member

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    Agree 190% quality o-line backups across the board
     
  4. lersgofor7

    lersgofor7 Well-Known Member

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    http://www.steelersdepot.com/2014/0...h-a-leg-that-was-two-different-sizes-in-2013/
     
  5. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    Keep Pouncey this team isn't talented enough to get rid of good O-linemen, he had some unfortunate injuries but he's worth keeping.
     
  6. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    I am looking at all aspects of the contracts. I listed totals and snippets like guaranteed dollars because I don't want to bury the thread in a table of year by year numbers for a bunch of contracts. Also, I don't think of 3 all-pro selections as a bad thing. I think of it as an expensive thing. To be all-pro for 3 years puts him in the company of Mangold (3x) and above Kalil (1x) in terms of awards. Chris Myers has zero all-pro selections. My point is simple - Pouncey's awards hardware places him at or near the top in the center pecking order in the league (and way above Myers' awards). If he thinks he's one of the top 2-3 centers in the NFL, then he's going to want to be compensated at least as highly as Kalil. Kalil's contract with $24 MM guaranteed probably sets the floor for what Pouncey will want. Also, Alex Mack is a UFA coming off of his rookie contract this offseason, so unless he gets franchised we'll see what the market sets for a center that has 2x pro bowl and 0x all-pro selections.

    Just to make sure that I'm clearly understood, I'll tabulate my points:
    1) I think Pouncey is very overrated. His awards place him as the top center in the league, or maybe top 3 at worst. I don't think he's in the same class as Kalil, Mangold, Unger, or Wood. I would take Mack or Myers over him as well. So, for me he's no better than the #7 center in the league, and his injury history moves him down further. I don't think he's a bad player, and (some earlier jokes aside) I do think he's the best center on our roster.
    2) In my view, since Pouncey's awards place him in the top 3, he's going to want at least as much as a guy (Kalil) who's awards place him below Pouncey.
    3) I think that your proposed contract is way below what he's going to want, and is more geared toward a second or third tier center than a guy who's awards place him in the top 1-3 centers in the league.
    4) If he is willing to go with what you'd offer, I might bite at something close to that. You're numbers have a lower cap hit - and importantly a much lower potential dead money hit - than Kalil's contract. So, we're not far apart on what might work for the team. We are far apart on what we think would work for Pouncey.
    5) All of that said, given our cap situation if we can get Velasco for a 2-3 million/year lower cap hit over the next few years than Pouncey, I'd rather go that direction. I don't think the drop off is that significant, and I think Velasco is stronger and handles larger nose tackles and DTs better in both the run game and pass protection. For me it comes down to cap dollars vs. value, and I think our money can be better spent elsewhere.
     
  7. steelers5859

    steelers5859 Well-Known Member

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    We hope Velesco comes back healthy as well.
     
  8. Rush2seven

    Rush2seven Well-Known Member

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    Tomlin said he has high expectations for him, wants him to put in a stellar off season. While I agree with that sentiment, shouldn't all players put in a stellar offseason? I guess complacency happens with many, we saw that with Casey and Starks showing up out of shape. Perhaps the amount of money they are making, and the privilege to play football isn't held in as high a regard with the players as it would be for us common folk.
     
  9. lersgofor7

    lersgofor7 Well-Known Member

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    you make very good points...although i disagree with some of them...my head would explode if i tried to respond to this....

    our cap situation by the time pouncey will resign will be fine...misconception that we are that bad off...
     
  10. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    and? 6 sacks, 7 penalties, God knows how many hits, pressures and hurries. there is no way a 6-6 330lb. nfl tackle should be walked back into the QB like he is. the double move kills him. he can't sustain a block. they constantly have to give him TE and sometimes TE and FB help.

    as it says at the bottom of your article, our 2, 2nd round tackles will fight for a RT spot, while the 3rd,7th round pick plays the money spot. if your happy with that, I just don't know what else to say.:facepalm::cool:
     
  11. lersgofor7

    lersgofor7 Well-Known Member

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    That happens in the NFL... you are not going to hit on every pick and it says more about the coaching then it does about the talent and size of these guys... I would be fine with either playing RT next year....actually I was calling at the beginning of the year to keep Adams at RT where he excelled last year...the running game started to take off when he was inserted at RT last year...

    The coaching staff made this situation a mess by flipping these guys back and forth...i dont care what level you are at if you have ever played sports that messes with your confidence....

    look at the penalties he only had 2 holding calls ( go look at the comparison to some of the other RT in the league) ... 1 was the bogus tripping and one was an illegal formation...

    he was playing injured most of the year... No way you give up on him just yet..

    again agree to disagree like you said... good debate though
     
  12. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Inconsistency has hounded Gilbert since he got here, he does have good games and the Steelers must be banking on this, he'll get another shot next season but he's going to have to earn it.
     
  13. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    you can't keep a RT only player when a guy that can play both, if needed, is playing the position better. I'd draft a LT capable guy and replace gilbert with adams in a minute. that gives you starters and a good swing tackle backup.:cool:
     
  14. lersgofor7

    lersgofor7 Well-Known Member

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    What round would you draft a LT in...I personally wouldn't in the first...I see a lot of mocks with us taking lewan from michigan...he's got tools but he is raw...it would in essence be getting Adams again...and I really think Adams will eventually turn it around....The coaching and development of these guys is the problem IMO... Bicknell did an above average job with these guys...and why not Beachum at LT...guy played great last 6 games...1 sack 4 pressures
     
  15. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    I would not draft a LT in the first round unless someone special (not Lewan) falls to us and the value is too great to pass up on when compared to other players on our board. I am fine with Beechum at LT. He's smart and he's a worker, so he's only going to improve. I think that what we saw from him at the end of last season is the starting point, and he will get better from there. We do need a backup for the position, and I don't see either Adams or Gilbert as being that guy (although Adams has a chance with good offseason work). I think both guys are RT-only types of players, and in my opinion there's only room for one on the roster next year (although I'm sure they will both be retained instead of getting a capable backup LT). Based on performance this season, it would be Gilbert - who IMO is a far below average RT. Based on potential, I think it's Adams if the guy can get his head out of his arse. I haven't fully researched who's available in free agency yet, but a legit starting RT would be a nice FA target.
     
  16. lersgofor7

    lersgofor7 Well-Known Member

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    Kinda contradicts what you said in your previous post... (All of that said, given our cap situation) How on earth are we ever going to afford a Free Agent RT....:shrug:

    anyway Im just busting chops

    I am also fine with Beachum at LT...
     
  17. Steel_Elvis

    Steel_Elvis Staff Member Mod Team

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    By not over-spending on Pouncey, that's how ;)
     
  18. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    I said the same thing about lewan. as I said, with adams going to RT, we have our starters. beachumLT adams RT. I'd seriously have to consider either david yankey if he comes out or wesley Johnson. if hurst slipped a round or so because of the leg break, he would be an option. so would Justin britt.

    beachum your first LT. draft pick the second and adams as the 3rd if we were in a pinch. yankey could be your new LG starter also. he would be a 1st rounder I could live with. Johnson could be gotten in the 4th possibly. he is also position flexible. hurst would be a 3rd-4th. britt most likely would come in the 4th or 5th. cutting gilbert would save the money plus leave us all 3 LT/RT players. if they play it right a couple of starters at certain positions and backups at several. gilbert gives you one spot only.:cool:
     
  19. darcrav

    darcrav Well-Known Member

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    AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Pounce has to realize he isn't THAT crucial to us if we keep the others
     
  20. lersgofor7

    lersgofor7 Well-Known Member

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    You do not give up on a 24 yr old 3-time all-pro center for a 29 and 30 yr old who weren't even on a roster in the beginning of the yr..


     
  21. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    velasco was cut for money reasons. the new O-line coach will have to decide the fate of some of these guys now.:cool:
     
  22. lersgofor7

    lersgofor7 Well-Known Member

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    Correct...he was still on the street at the start of week 1 and he wasn't cut until the last pre-season game so there was some performance issues... Trust me I love the way velasco played and he should be brought back and will be easier to sign now that he tore his achillies ...but nt at the expense of pouncey who is one of the best in the league



    Quote on velasco ---It is surprising because he played well last year at center AND at guard, but apparently he didn't play well enough this year.


     
  23. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    there are also quotes saying he played well enough but they didn't want to pay him 2 million dollars too. he is a concern too with the injury. they may not keep any of them, who knows. they may draft one, pouncey will play out his year and may go south with his brother.:shrug::cool:
     
  24. lersgofor7

    lersgofor7 Well-Known Member

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    where in the world has this rumor come from? I have not seen this quoted or written about anywhere?
     
  25. mac daddyo

    mac daddyo Well-Known Member

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    so since it's not been written about, you don't think it's crossed his mind? that's where they both live and are from too. what player wouldn't want to play in their backyard with their brother? why would he need to write about it?:cool:
     

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