Why Are Butler And Lake Above Reproach?

the scheme is not at fault, and for those that think MT and his tampa two defense would make a lot of difference, I disagree. many teams have taken apart teams that run that defense too. it come down to players.

if you check the stats, our DB's are leading this team in tackles, except for Timmons. this is never a good sign. not only do they have to be the main run support, but then they also have to cover receivers. I believe that's why we are getting guys out of position or guessing on plays. their age then becomes all the more of a hindrance since they have all lost a step. they just can't make up ground like they used to.

DL is trying to make up for some of this with a scheme of using an extra safety as a LB. he is also using 2 down d-linemen and the OLB'ers as a 4-3 type of system to make up for our lack of another good ILB. something we still are in need of.

Williams has played OK, but we have taken him off the field to try and help the backend some with added speed. (t-roy as the ILB/rover). remember t-roy,farrior,casey, ike, clark, gay, and the list goes on for guys that played in this defense well before 3 years and were able to do it at a high level.

it's not the scheme, it's the players. it's also not for DL's lack of being innovative either. we are just being outmanned right now. a coaching change won't change that.

 

Like him or not, Tomlin's record speaks for itself. The argument about winning with Cohwers players is a joke, Cohwer didn't always win with Cohwers players. Tomlin is a solid coach. Is he a HOFer? Probably not, but a good solid coach.
It's a shame that every other thread gets derailed with Tomlin and Ben bashing lately.

 

he did inherit a good team already, you can't deny that. most coaches don't step into a situation with a top defense and a franchise qb in his prime.

 

No denying it. But inheriting a good team (leaving aside the 8-8 record for a moment) and winning with them are not identical. This was not a team who walked into every Superbowl every year under Cowher. And it's not like the best coaching move would have been for MT to instantly release any player who smelled of Cowher on his first day.

Anyways, this is a thread about Lake and Butler, isn't it?

Out of interest, how long has Butler been LB coach? We've always been known for our strong LB corps, but we've struggled to replace Foote this season, and players like Stephenson Sylvester didn't work out. Do we put this on Butler?

 

Yeah and Cohwer inherited Noll's players and won with them, Blah blah blah.

 

I'm so tired of that lame argument well Cowher should've won more with his own players then.

 

if it's a matter of foote being so hard to replace then we are in trouble anyway. foote has grown bigger than life somehow now that he's out. they brought sly back for a second year in a row, knowing he's not good enough. it's pretty easy to coach guys that are stars. you show your coaching ability at coaching up guys that may be a little less, and making them good players. it took years for him to make Timmons into a good LB, but in his 7th season he's just now making his first try at calling defenses. why is that? yes, I put that on butler. the bringing back of foote to have to be a starter after they have tried to replace him, and bringing a sub par sly back yet again, is on butler and MT and DL and Colbert.

 

It's because Butler and Lake aren't 76 years old. If you look at Monte Kiffin in dallas he's in his 70's also and his defense is struggling, the league has probably caught on to these two DC and their schemes. I just think it's time for some fresh ideas, just because Lebeau is a Hall Of Famer it doesn't guarantee him lifetime employment.

 

there has to be some stability kept on this team in the time of transition. young players are playing now and yes rookies heads are spinning across the league.

this is also very deep in a season for new players.

guys are stepping up when on the field, even though still a little confused.

Williams when playing is doing better at his assignments. garvin is getting valuable time.

heyward has become the player we thought he would. ziggy is playing well also. mclendon is playing well for his first year starting. woods is playing well too. these guys are getting better and the time they are putting in now will stabilize us down the road when guys like arnfelt and Williams are brought in as backups next year.

let's not forget, Thomas was playing well before the ankle injury too. so we are way ahead on young players stepping up earlier than in the past in this same scheme.

it will help stabilize the defense as we continue to build a new defense, so now isn't the time to get rid of the mastermind.

you replace the older players with youth slowly. this year, foote (with Williams). casey (with mclendon). smith (with heyward). clark (with Thomas next year). hoke (with woods). sly (with garvin or wilson). Woodley (with worilds). Harrison (with JJ). these are some big shoes to fill and there will be more next year. of course things won't be like before, but it's way to early in the rebuild process to fire the stability that this one two or three years has brought to these young guys.

 

I never said he didn't. why such an azz glenn?

 

I really don't think they are either above reproach. We've had db's missing tackles like CRAZY this year and I'd put that squarely in their laps. Also we've had a ton of busted coverages. The cushion however I consider to be all DL. Do you think that falls on them too?

 

I honestly believe that our team has a really low football iq. That's really the bottom line for me. Apparently the Pats have a really complicated system because Ocho said it was incredibly difficult to pick up on but Bill plugs guys in there and gets the best out of them. We don't seem to be able to get those early returns. I don't know if that's because we try to draft guys with "instincts" or just guys that we THINK we can develop. I would like to see a lot more intellectualism among our team.

 

Thank you Mac for clarifying this MAJOR
FACT.

 

Well I'm sure you COULD ,but I don't think you would want too. Remember it's 76yrs old down there. Ugh! lol.

 

I've been saying the same thing for a while. I think we can do a better job of preparing week to week. It's time we start game planning and attacking other teams weaknesses,instead of trying to bang our heads against the wall cause we are "doing what we do". I think we saw some of this last night. Ben played a very solid game. Our red zone is still a work in progress though. Did anyone else notice that Tomlin really seemed to be on his game last night as well. I really hope we take a much better approach in the offseason and in the training camps. Work smarter not harder.

 

it wasn't meant to put anyone down, it's just a fact. he did inherit a solid team. most new coaches walk in after someone was fired and into a mess. he didn't. cowher retired. big difference, but I'm not saying that's a bad thing or that it makes MT any less of a coach.

 

Yes I do have a different opinion.