When was the turning point?

Losing the players listed above didn't effect them on the field because all those players were washed up by the time they left the Steelers. The problem is they weren't adequately replaced.

 

I would add another one:

The deteriation of our offensive line.

We lost Fanaca, Marvel Smith, Jeff Hartings and flozell.

 

The 2008 draft. We took Mendy a few selections before Duane Brown came off the board, and this was at a point when it was becoming obvious to the casual fan that our OL was in trouble. That move locks down our LT spot for years to come, and allows us to not have to designate Max Starks as our franchise player two years in a row. Maybe Ben stays a little more upright, our backs have more room to run, and our offense becomes more potent.

The degradation of our trenches is Steeler enemy #1, in my eyes.

 

Although I completley agree with the rule changes, taking away from our ability to seperate recievers(or runninbacks, for that matter), from the ball...or being able to drive the qb into the ground...
I was also gonna mention the loss of a good O-line... Faneca, Hartings, and I forgot about Marvel Smith(Flozell came later as a free agent)...
And a solid running game... Bus left, Arians eliminated the fullback position...
I think those are the two biggest reasons, we ain`t what we used to be.
The rules favored offenses, so, we got away from our roots on defense, and fell in love with the passing game, kinda like we did when we had "Tommy gun" Maddox, on offense...
Neither one of those, is considered "Steeler Football"...
Therefore, we "lost our identity"...
We used to intimidate on Defense, and run the ball down your throat on offense...
Not that that is the only way to win games, but it worked.
And WAS our identity.
GO STEELERS!

 

hiring tomlin.
the team has continually gone down hill in almost ever facet since he's been here............except for the hiring of lake, i honestly cant think of any improvements that have occurred under his watch

 

Our inability to draft well the past
5 years. We have maybe 2 impact players
on are whole roster and they don't always
come to play. We NEED PLAYMAKERS.

 

The number of Lombardi trophies has improved...

 

Upon further review, and reading the brilliant opinions on this thread, I think on offense it is the interaction of two things - losing Cowher and the way Ben plays. I think Cowher kept Ben in check a bit, and since then it has been more backyard ball. Before his injury last year Ben was playing well, but was playing within the system, as far as I could tell. With Ben's gift (and desire?) to improvise, I believe the offense has gotten less disciplined, as the play that seems to be called in the huddle often does not seem to be executed (are they really pump fakes or indecision?), and Ben scrambles and tries to make something happen. When this becomes the identity (everyone always marvels at Ben's ability to do this - it is not his game savvy or execution, but the fact that he is big and strong), I can't help but wonder if the players get less concerned about being disciplined. And Arians did not rein Ben in, and when Haley tried, there were rumors of conflict. Over the long haul, this has eroded, or at least changed, the Steelers identity on offense.
On defense, I think DL had the luxury of having exceptional talent at lots of positions (D-line, linebackers, and safeties) and could use their talents in exotic and creative ways. I think much of that talent is now gone or aging, and DL knows this, and he has resorted to the more vanilla "try to prevent the big play" approach, and recently even that has not been working. There is some good, young talent on the way, but they will best be developed by someone new.

Lots of other factors, too, as everyone has mentioned, and possibly a perfect storm of factors, but Ben's style and some lack of talent are contributors.

 

This one got lost in the shuffle, but I think it deserves a little credit. While approved in late 2008 (our most recent Superbowl winning season), a quick Googling tells me the ownership restructure wasn't finalized and official until September of 2009. I've always loved that the Steelers were a "family owned" team in a time of corporate everything. I realize that, according the NFL rules, they are still technically "family owned" but I don't fully believe it. Maybe it was this very selling of shares to non-Rooney's that caused us to lose our magic? Since then we've only had our season's end in heartbreak, each more ridiculous than the last (lost Superbowl, loss to f'ing Tebow, failure to make playoffs at all. . .)
Seriously though, I blame Goodell. I agree with the sentiment that our ability and desire to punish opponents on both sides of the ball has declined significantly. We can really only blame Goodell for the defense, but the rules changes had a serious impact on our style of playing. We've been caught in limbo ever since that Colt McCoy/James Harrison collision, trying to toe that line, but toeing the line isn't effective. We needed to adjust our defense, I think, a lot more than Lebeau realized we would have to. And he was maybe a little slow on the uptake.
Geez, now I'm just rambling, but our inability to replace the quality players we had is just too glaring. Ended up resigning old men for too much when we should have had a legit, younger, cheaper replacement ready. It catches you eventually.

 

I have to say the hiring of Tomlin. Not because he is a bad coach just the wrong coach. I say that from personnel standpoint in the payers that have been drafted. Tomlin in a 4-3 Tampa 2 defense guy who only coached for teams that ran the west coast offense. The Steelers are a 3-4 zone blitz 2 gap defense that runs a modified Erhardt-Perkins offense. His choices have adversely affect the quality of play on both sides of the ball. The defense and the offense has not changes since he got here, just the personnel.

I will also say, in the past, the Steelers always drafted the Best Player available and never drafted for need. It seems more and more since Tomlin we are drafting for need. we may have left some talent on the board with some of our picks.

 

Good job, Interesting observations.

 

Here’s my thesis. It’s not the loss of leadership, if you are that dependent on a guy like Ward, Farrior, etc. for leadership than your organization has a problem developing leaders, no team should be so reliant on a guy for leadership. It’s not Goodell’s rules – there are still dominating, hit you in the mouth defenses – check out San Francisco & Seattle. It’s not the loss to Tebow or to the Packers – the Steelers with their rich history, including over the past decade still have plenty of swagger. The hiring of Haley has had its issues, but they had issues under Arians as well – in fact the same problems under Arians are almost the same under Haley.

No – my thesis is the Steelers started going downhill (albeit very slowly and with some fruitful years) in March 2008 when they signed Ben Roethlisberger to a 8 year $100M contract. Why??

Because the Steelers brass (and I blame Rooney and Colbert for a lot of this – Tomlin deserves some blame too) didn’t recognize they fundamentally needed to change their approach to how they managed personnel in the age of the franchise quarterback. The Steelers, in my opinion, placed far too much emphasis on keeping all their great players, especially on defense and started playing the cap extension game which constantly kept them in peril with a suspect offensive line and having an inability to sign key guys for extension who were young like Keenan Lewis. In conjunction with that the ideas of developing players and finding cheaper solid FA or undrafted guys who are adaptable has largely been neglected.

I know some are going to think this is a travesty, but Hampton should have been gone a long time ago, not just last year – not because he stunk, but because he simply cost too much for the value he was bringing to the team. And decisions like that were needed across the board.

 

Sorry I don't buy it - don't get me wrong, I see the value of being an intimidator - but Seattle intimidates because they smack the receivers off the line and ball hawk the receivers at every instant. By the way - ever watch Navarro Bowman play - that guy hits people hard, very hard. Also - my premise is if all you can do is stick someone real hard, but don't bring a lot of other skills to the table, then you don't bring enough. See James Harrison in his glory days - hard hitter, but also talented at getting low to create pass rush, fantastic at sealing the edge, and generally a fantastic lateral mover as well. Then see Ryan Clark who has built his whole career on lighting people up, also good against the run, but has for a long time been atrocious in coverage which is one of the key things you need from a Free Safety ala Ed Reed. If the Steelers were basing Clark's good play on his ability to hit people hard, then generally I would say that's a stupid way to evaluate a FS. If your defense relies mostly on intimidation as opposed to talent, guys knowing what they are supposed to do, coaches knowing what they want players to do, then your defense is not building a solid base.

 

thank you. i'd like to add, dan took off to Ireland also leaving art 2 to deal with the new board of owners and he wasn't staring at familiar family faces in those meetings anymore.

 

Obviously this team was in decline last year posting an 8-8 record, I thought the coaching staff and management would take notice when they did their post season review and had the off season to make the necessary changes needed to come out swinging this year: But little was done to make the changes needed to compete this year, all we heard from Tomlin was the 8-8 left a bad taste in their mouth and this team was going to come out swinging this year, final analysis, a lot of talk but no action in shoring up the obvious holes on this team.....

 

To some extent there was little they could do personnel-wise because of the horrid situation they put themselves in with the way they managed the cap the past 4 years.

 

I tried to include the 2 posts following this, because, Blast agrees with me, that the rules DEFINITELY make a difference, and you had a decent counter-argument to that, but I couldn`t figure out how to include those posts, SO...
All I can say, is... You make some good points about paying the qb so much money, that you can`t pay the other positions, or, we spend so much on the other position`s "tier 1" players, that we can`t field a "complete" team, or afford to have "talent on the bench"...
I find this funny, because it is the exact same complaint I had in the mid-90`s, when we WOULDN`T pay our players, and let them walk, rather than pay them what other teams would...
The Rooney`s were seen as "cheap".
And rightfully so...
They built thru the draft, had lots of talent "waiting in the wings", and we complained because they wouldn`t spend, to keep the veterans here...
Now, They spend to keep the talent here, but have nothing left, when the talent ages/ gets to expensive to keep/ can`t afford to pay every position...
They are damned if they do, and damned if they don`t!
For the longest time, I was convinced that all we needed was a decent(not "superstar") quarterback, to get us our 5th ring, with all the talent we had surrounding him, and O`Donnell, seemed to prove me right, up until the game that mattered...
Can`t fault the Rooney`s for building a team stocked with talent, and a "decent" qb, who happened to choke when it mattered most.
Now, they changed their ways, and seem to have mortaged their immediate future, to pay a superstar qb, and keep some "superstar" talent around him...
Time to pay the piper...
Not sure if any of that means they have "lost their identity", but it sure seems that either way, no matter how hard they tried, they had their best results with Ben at qb...
My guess is they stick with it.
But, I did enjoy reading your "thesis", Steel in DC... That was a good post, and I think you made a lot of good points in it, that many here, might have been hesitant to say.
GO STEELERS!

 

around the time of the second allegations of Ben or earlier in the same season when Hines called out Ben for not playing in bmore because of a headache

 

Very well said DC, I have asked the same questions in
different threads and have stated they must change
the way they do business.

 

Lots of good points and I think when you are talking "identity" everything mentioned here has to be included. Would be hard to hang your hat on one event changing the entire identity of a team. I do think the rule changes had a bigger impact that some truly understand, especially, when you look at the frustration (not to mention money) that it caused for JH. I would add and have felt this for several years now that I felt the culmination of things mentioned here when I noticed Ben's inability to win games down the stretch. Picking up the team and carrying them down the field for a last minute win was his trademark and was referred to often. When is the last time anyone has talked about his ability to win the game in the end? Seems he has thrown the ball away or turned it over more often than not. I am a Ben fan and am not blaming him entirely just saying I noticed the correlation.