The ELEPHANT in the room

Okay, I'm going to address the elephant in the room and I would like to ask my MB friends to PLEASE give me the benefit of the doubt and not take this as anything other than what it is, a serious question. Dan Rooney has long been at the forefront of making sure that minority candidates got an opportunity to move up the coaching ranks in the NFL. I admire his leadership in that arena and agree that it was long overdue. There have been some outstanding minority coaches in the NFL. I love Tony Dungy and would put him up against about any NFL HC. I also thought Lovie Smith did one heckuva job in Chicago taking the Bears to the Super Bowl with Rex Grossman as the QB no less. But...

Do you think that Rooney, because of his valiant efforts to give minorities an opportunity to move up the ranks, may be more reluctant to fire Mike Tomlin than he ordinarily might be? Might he, given his bold stand on the minority hiring issue, be more likely to hold on to a minority head coach longer than maybe he should? I'm just wondering what Dan Rooney's mindset would be on the issue and the possibility of one day having to cut ties with Mike Tomlin. It may not be as cut and dried as we all think.

And I'm not saying it's time to cut ties with Mike Tomlin and Dan Rooney won't do it because he's black, so don't even go there. I DON'T think it's time to cut ties with Tomlin even though I think he may have some shortcomings as a coach. All coaches have shortcomings. I've said it before on this board that Mike Tomlin's legacy will be established over the next 3 years. The team is in a tailspin. He will have the opportunity beyond this year to try to pull it out of its tailspin. I hope he can do it because I'm a fan of the Pittsburgh Steelers. Tomlin has a lot of strengths and some weaknesses that we've all debated ad nauseum on this board. We'll see what transpires over the next couple of years. If the Steelers continue to decline then somebody has to be held accountable. My question is this: would it be as simple a decision for Dan Rooney as some seem to want to make it? Thoughts?

 

Mike Tomlin won't be fired based on his minority status (whatever that is these days). It will be because he is just not a very good head coach and I do believe it will happen this offseason unless something drastic happens to make a small run (LMAO) at the playoffs.

I wish him well in his future but in the words of Chaz Noll he just has to get on with his life's work which isn't being a HC in the NFL.

 

I was telling my wife the other day that it would be ironic if the Rooney's had to fire Mike Tomlin after having a rule named after them. But I do NOT think the Rooney's will hold on to Mike Tomlin to save face. I think they will do what they feel is necessary to save the Steelers. That issue might come up with some people who have an agenda to push but from a purely analytical perspective it won't even be a thought. I've heard guys call in on the post game show and say the only reason he's there is because of the Rooney's trying to grandstand about the rule that bares their name. That's grossly unfair to Tomlin AND the Rooney's. I think Tomlin is a stand up guy though and I'm sure if he did lose his job, which I do not in any way think that he will, he would stand up and take full accountability for not getting it done. I don't believe race will ever be an issue in this whatsoever. At least not to rationally thinking people anyway.

 

I don't think Tomlin is ready for this type of Team,it seems to me that he gives the Vets more respect than they deserve and then he tries to cover for them in the press conference....I think our Team needs a Coach with more fire and a Coach that is not affraid to command the Team...

He Coaches on Auto Pilot which is fine if the weather is good...Not so good flying thru a Tornado...

 

I don't think they do anything this year. They've always given coaches a long leash. It's really not going to be that hard for Tomlin to come up with excuses for more time.

Tomlin:
Obvously, previous vets were too good to let younger players develop. Now purged a lot of the old guys, we OBVIOUSLY have a lot of inexperience players, next year we'll be inexperienced too. Don't worry, OBVIOUSLY, I've got a few ideas, they'll OBVIOUSLY take a little time to develop.... but I've got this idea for a punter, kicker and long snapper.... OBVIOUSLY I really think this idea is gonna up the ante from playing JV ball.... it's gonna be like Unleashing Hell 2.0

 

I mentioned this in passing a couple months back.

Saddly I think the Rooney's would try to save face and not fire Tomlin, no matter how bad he might be. And, if Tomlin somehow does leave, should they feel overly obligated to hire another minority in his place?
I'm by no means saying that a minority couldn't do an excellent job, I just want the best candidate. I don't care if they're a transgendered albino pygmy, as long as they can win.

 

It's like watching a trainwreck at this point.

 

If the Steelers finish up 4-12 or worse Tomlin likely gets canned or anything that comes out that the team is not trying or there is strong division in the locker room – something that has been loosely reported, but I think could be nothing but hearsay.

But if the Steelers finish better and there is effort then he will stay on. At that point and dependent on what the Steelers do in the off-season where a lot of players may not be back you kind of have to roll the dice with him for another few years to get it turned around.

My biggest question around Tomlin has always been whether he is a guy who is more of a manager or a innovator. I think Tomlin deserves some credit for how he managed the team in the early years, but the team needs a guy who can truly innovate and build something new, who has a true philosophy that he wants to implement and understands the type of players he wants for that system. I have no idea whether Tomlin has a true identity he wants to stamp on the team or whether he has really been given the chance. To me he has largely been a figurehead.

I really believe the larger problem facing the Steelers right now is the haphazard way the cap has been managed for the last few years and to me that seems like it is more of a Colbert issue than Tomlin. In today’s NFL and when you commit to a franchise QB you need to be able to turn over your roster on a continual basis to manage the cap and the Steelers have done a very poor job of that over the past few years.

 

To answer your question- They would have no problem in firing him if that time arrives. The Rooney Rule would have zero influence. It would in fact make it easier for them to fire Tomlin because No-One could come back and say he was fired for racial reasons.

Now to address Tomlin- Is he in trouble of being fired? No. Is he on the Hot seat? Yep, its getting warmer and rightfully so. The reason why he's safe. The Rooneys fired Arians and brought in Haley against Tomlins wishes and this is proving to be unproductive. The Rooneys and Colbert run the draft and the Talent level is on the decline.

The FO runs the Salary Cap and this team has been handcuffed. We lost Lewis but kept Ike and his 9 mil dollar hit. I've been saying for a long time all these restructures may help now but the day will come when it will hurt, that day is approaching fast.

Tomlins shortcomings, His team always seems unprepared to start the season. His clock management stinks. Tomlin, as HC, is ultimately responsible for the atmosphere in the locker room and product on the field and what's on the field is bad.

Cajun-

 

I think you make an excellent point with you "manager vs. innovater" question.

And unfortunately, the team ALWAYS seems to be unprepared, flat and uninspired when it comes to big games at crucial times in the season.

May be getting off track a little, but excellent discussion points.

 

tomlin has a lot of input on the draft , do you remember what he sayd to pryor ? if you want I will draft you not WE but I

 

The reason that I think that he should be fired is simple- he has had this team on a slide for a couple of years now, this being the worst and the way the team quit in the last part of the Patriots game. Watching that was the worst that I ever seen or felt in my 50 some years as a Steeler fan.

 

I ABSOLUTELY read all of your posts, my friend! When I see a BF post, I'm all over it.

But I must have missed that one...

 

I don't mean to imply Tomlin has nothing to do with the draft.

Fact is its Rooneys team and his Money. Its Colberts job to oversee the scouts, aquire players and run the draft. They do need Tomlins input which is why he goes to the combine and prodays but in the end of the day Colbert and Rooney are the ones who pull the trigger on a guy. The talent level on this team is falling since Tomlin came aboard so is it because they listen to him too much or not enough??


Cajun-

 

You say this as an excuse, but it's not exactly untrue...

Cajun has kind of hit the nail on the head, though, for me. The cap issue, the vet issue, all of these issues had no "good" ways around. This kind of season was always coming, in many respects.

What hurts more is, as people have said, the flatness, the lack of imagination, weird moves like not playing Moye or Wheaton... those are all avoidable, and should have been otherwise.

And Freak - that quote was from Pryor, saying Tomlin had said it. Not saying he's making it up, just that I wouldn't take it as word-for-word gospel.

 

I agree with others: I don't think that that will factor in the decision. The Steelers tend to be dispassionate about such things (race not being a factor). Remember, they did NOT hire Joe Greene to replace Chuck Noll in 1992. Joe was so ticked he went to Miami to coach the D-line. And they had no problem firing Ray Sherman in 1999.

 

I hope not. I hope Rooney comes out and thanks Tomlin for his time here in Pittsburgh and the success we've had, and then goes on to say that it's time for change and Tomlin is being relieved of his duties. That BA situation was managed so poorly. I don't know when we turned into the NY Jets or Dallas Cowboys, but we're starting to remind me of those teams. We've become a train wreck, from the top to the bottom.

 

Mike Tomlin is not getting fired this offseason. Geez, people it is one bad year, and it was bound to happen. Talk about spoiled fans! If this was the 3rd year in a row of a bad team Tomlin would be gone, but this is not all on him. How do we know the team is not well prepared? Because commentators mention it? Players play! You think Sunday was due because the team F d off all last week and didn't practice? No, the players laid down and quit! Speaking of players, its not Tomlins fault the talent is not here this year. The FO spends the money , and pays the checks, not the HC. Is it his fault draft picks have bottomed put since 2008? He could take some blame, but again look at the FO, Nd blame some of the draft picks, as they hold fate in their hands. Bottom line, this ride down is not gonna be over until 2015, so either hold on, or get some new meds, or drink heavily cuz this is not bottomed it yet.

 

The team quit yesterday. They quit! There's no bigger sign of the coach losing the team than when they quit. When that happens, coaches are usually on borrowed time. I still think tomlin will be back next year, but I think when we suck again next season, he'll be fired.

For the record, it has been 3 bad years in a row. I don't care what our record said, we were not a good team when we lost to Tebow.

 

Sounds good, but except for this season pretty sure Tomlin started every season 6-3 or 6-2

 

Race has nothing to do with it this will be Tomlin's first losing season he deserves the time to right the ship. Cowher sucked from 1998 to 2000 they didn't fire him.

 

Hell and here I thought this thread and the "Elephant in the Room" was gunna be about trading Ben, not getting rid of Tomlin.

Like I said elsewhere (in the Rooney thread) ... Tomlin was safe earlier, now I think the Rooneys are undecided, and will wait until the season's end to decide.