Is LeBeau's defense TOO complicated?

We all keep hearing about how Dick LeBeau's vaunted defense is SO complicated and that it's pretty near impossible for a rookie to come in and have success right away. In fact, some players don't get acclimated to his defense for 3 or 4 years. I'm just about ready to call bullcrap on that one. Why is it that a rookie like Jarvis Jones can't come in and have at least flashes of success right away? The guy was a beast in college in the toughest conference in all of college footbal. He dominated, plain and simple, and was supposed to be essentially a plug and play in a 3-4 system. Shamarko Thomas is looking at Troy or Clark for his assignment about every play. He looks lost out there and he is. What has happened? Does DL's formulaic schemes have these guys so scared that they'll miss their assignments that they can't unleash the beast and make some plays like they used to do at Georgia and Syracuse? Jason Worilds still doesn't have it figured out. Neither does Ziggy Hood or Cam Heyward although Heyward is starting to show some potential. Lawrence Timmons continues to struggle at times and this, I believe, is his seventh season. We've drafted some pretty doggone good athletes over the last few years on the defensive side of the ball and then we handcuff them and don't allow them to make plays. Sure, they may give up a play or two but give these guys a fundamental assignment and then let them go out and make plays!

I'm just trying to figure out what may be going on along with everyone else. I don't have the answers and I'm intersted in getting my MB cohots' opinions on the matter. Why is it that our rookies and young players can't seem to get DL's defense figured out but yet the offenses that we play against week in and week out seem to have broken the LeBeau code and some have even commented about how simple it is once it's figured out? Any thoughts?

 

its not too complicated, its become too predictable.

the zone blitzing and playing 10 yards off the wrs does not work anymore. with all the hurry up offense that is being played now around the league, unless you can get pressure on the qb with a 4 man rush your not gonna have success on defense.

the steelers cant get pressure on the qb with their "exotic" blitz packages and their dbs play so far of the wrs that qbs are just picking them apart.

DL is a legend in the NFL, but like everything his time has come and gone.

 

Wonder about this as well. We've been hearing about the rookies (like Jarvis) being demoted because they are out of position during plays. If they spend so much time thinking about the defensive scheme, it is harder for them to react to what the offense is doing.

I hate to mention Simms, but he said something that I've noticed too. The defenses that we usually think of as dominant seem to swarm the ball. That makes it harder for the ball carrier to get away, and the extra players coming from a blind angle can knock the ball loose. The Steelers don't seem to be doing this. They are less likely to get caught out of position (less over pursuit), but in recent games they are giving up a lot of yards when the first defender gets blocked or gets outrun.

 

Football not only is a game of X'S & O'S but it is also a game of instinct's. Troy has made a career with that skillset. (although as he gets older he don't have the agility or quickness he once possessed)

 

They have been caught out of position a lot!!! The 93 yard run last week, the WIDE OPEN receivers this week. I'm thinking maybe it is time to look at the wonderlic scores of some of these guys as they can't get it. The truth of the matter is you had 2 guys that were unblockable with 1 lineman, Smith, Hampton, and Keisel, and it was so tough to block them that teams had to choose a side in which to develop the play as they basically had to double team at least 2 of the three and that is where the zone blitz was so devastating because they basically had to guess at which side the blitz was coming from. Guess wrong and you lost yards on a sack or forced the ball out for an incompletion or turnover, guess right and hit the hot read for 5 to 7 yards, very few big plays. Now we have Ziggy Hood, he can't shed a block so teams run right at him with a pulling guard and TE to block Woodley and the result is 7 yards per carry all day every day. Keisel is too old but still plays strong and McClendon seems to get penetration but when he gets doubled, Ziggy can't help as he can't push or get off a block and Heyward, while an upgrade over Ziggy, isn't hat good either, that is where the defense is getting beat, that can't disrupt the line of scrimmage. On the opposite side teams are getting to Ben with just a 3 man rush, and they are getting there quickly, the first INT Ben threw he was under pressure in less than 2 seconds and he didn't see Bell coming to block as Bell has already missed several blocks in pass protect. This is the worst team I can remember the Steelers ever fielding since I've been watching them and that was from 1969.

 

Troy just got faked out of his jock last night ..Brady basically told him where to go and came back to the other side for a TD..
lovembig is right though ..The game is a lot different and his exotic schemes are no longer a menace to any team

 

DL's defense has simply run it's course

 

Although they are getting older, anyone that blames Troy or Ben for losses need to look at the rest of the team. In Troy's case the secondary and Bens case the O line. there is enough to go around. Just an opinion.

 

Maybe it is too complicated, especially considering it often takes 3 years for a rookie to get a sniff on defense – which in turn doesn’t allow the organization to learn very much about what they have.

My knock against LeBeau and for that matter, many coordinators is they buy into their system too much without adapting their schemes to the personnel they have. I actually think LeBeau has been trying some different things with his defense this year, but the bottom line is he just doesn’t have the personnel he needs and what appears to be a rigid way in which he has run the defense over the years has not allowed them to find players who can serve a more multi-purpose role in the defense.

 

I don't know I think it is pretty complicated, something like a huge three ring binder. Players for the Steelers have commented it is complex and takes awhile to know all the different scenarios for where you are supposed to be on the field.

 

I never thought I would say this... but our defense is not aggressive enough... We need to start sending more guys on the blitzes. CB blitzes, safety blitzes, send the house!!!!

 

With the exception of the QB, no player can lose a football game by himself. Not at all saying Ben lost that game, just saying that you can't really look at one player and blame them for a loss. It's a team game and we lost as a team. Troy played awful, but take him out and put in any other safety in the league and we still lose that game.

 

I hear this too, and if it's true, then DL is failing this team. If the entire team isn't getting it, then the problem isn't the players, it's the system. I don't care what anyone says, we have some talent on this team, but it's not being used properly. Timmons, Clark, Troy, Ike, Woodley, Jarvis, these guys are all talented. Yes, some of them are older, but older players can still make a big impact in the NFL. It often requires being more disciplines as they don't have the speed to get back into position, but there are a lot of older DB's in the league playing just fine.

When the problem is a few players, the fault lies with the players. when the problem is the entire team, the fault lies with the coach(es). Besides, even if the talent isn't there, it's the coaches job to coach them up and install a system around them so they can be successful. The best teams in the league aren't necessary the most talented. NE doesn't have a ton of talent on that team and have dealt with a lot of change in personnel, yet the're still winning

 

i just dont think the style of defense DL wants to play works in todays NFL. offenses are so fast and teams want to get the ball out so quick that DL's zone blitzes just dont have the time to be effective. put the fact that he wants his dbs 10 yards off the wrs and that is a recipe for a 2-6 season with very few sacks and even fewer takeaways.

 

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Yep. Just like the 46 defense.

 

All the defensive players of the past says it is a hard defense to master. Troy, Woodley, Timmons, Gildeon, Porter, Haggans, Smith, Kiesel and Hood, Heyward all started as backups first before they became starters. And rookies took longer to learn. But with today's NFL, you don't have 3 years to wait for a player to learn the system. Their rookie contracts are only 4 years long. By time he becomes a starter he will be a free agent and move on to another team because you know the Steelers isn't going to pay him top dollar. One, because we just don't and two, we don't know what he can do after 3-4 years still learning the system.

Whoever said that Lebeau should change his system to fit the players is absolutely right. We need a least complicated system that these guys can grasp within a years time not take their entire rookie contract

 

This. And I'm tired of hearing people deflect as to why we lose games like this. Tell it like it is - our D is just flat and easily beatable.

 

And I'll add this also, to run and effective 3-4 defense you need a run stopper in the middle that requires double teams unless you have two ILBs the size of Levon Kirkland.

Then you need two outstanding OLB that can rush the passer.

We have neither of these.

McClendon is doing an admirable job but should be at end. And doesn't require double teams. Woodley needs another partner on the other side.

Jarvis Jones doesn't have the strength yet. He might of nominated in college but how many of those college players are in the NFL? He might of been in a tough conference but how many Kent State, Murray State and Southwest Louisana State did he play up against? We have all seen college players come to the NFL and not succeed right off.

 

The defense only seems to be complicated to our players. Every other team seems to have figured it out as of late.

 

i would like to see fangupo with heiward and mclendon at the end , it's time to see if we already have on the roster some alternatives

 

This article gives further indication that LeBeau's defense is too complicated. I hope the next DC installs a defense that enables young, top draft picks to contribute a whole heckuva sooner than 3 or 4 years. It's ridiculous to think that their rookie contract will expire before they contribute anything meaningful. And it's almost like its a source of pride. Our defense is so complicated that... Enough already! Let's figure out how to get these talented guys up to speed sooner.

Heyward’s development is not unusual, since it takes awhile for players to learn Dick LeBeau’s defense. Keisel did not start a game until his fourth season. Aaron Smith, one of the top 3-4 defensive ends in franchise history, dressed for only six games as a rookie in 1999 before assuming a starting role in his second season.

“I think he is at the regular growth rate,” LeBeau said. “He’s been getting stronger every year. I would say from the middle of the season on to the end of last year, he played very well. He continued to do that. I think he’s going to be a good player for a good while.”





Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/...r-Steelers/stories/201311090047#ixzz2k9nIigVh

 

I don't understand what you mean by to complicated?



let me ask you this. was it to complicated when we were one of the best defenses year in and year out up to this point? or the mentality of the players now running it?

 

That's a good question, mac, and I'm not sure why it's so dang complicated either. Playing defense isn't rocket science is it? It's reacting to what the offense does. It's swarming to the ball, it's getting after the quarterback. It's being disciplined with regard to gap coverage. It's covering your guy or your zone. It's trying to rip the ball out of the runner's hand. It's realizing that you have as much of a right to the ball when it's in the air as the receiver does. I don't want to suggest that I know what's going on with our defense, but all I know is that it takes way too long to get our youngsters acclimated and the teams we've been playing against the last couple of years don't seem to think it's that complicated.

 

Good comment Jack Attack,
I believe it is. Slows the development of players and their natural instincts.ATTACK and watch us WIN BIG with the right personnel.