What we have lost or what has changed?

He's very noticeably slower and less agile than he used to be. The guy probably has the body of a 40 year old. He has been beaten up pretty badly over his career

 

If they don't soon fix the line issues they might as well move mister rogers statue and set it behind this oline haha

Bman

 

He was getting lit up but I think that 1st week's game against the Ravens was the one that hurt him the most and he never got back to form. That play still ticks me off to no end, they try to run a screen to Ward behind the Tackle and TE and it gets tipped and the Ravens just kill him because apparently it is perfectly legal to destroy an opposing team's player on a tipped pass. Reminds me of the scence in semi-pro where they wait for a commercial and then have an all out brawl till they go back live.

Anyways I disagree that it was time. I think both Ward and Smith had one more year in them and then would have gone on their own terms. Ward even said he was willing o do what ever was asked, he wasn't looking for number one receiver minutes but he would have been a guy Ben has confidence in, would have helped mentor Brown and Sanders more and I don't think you can overstate his leadership on the sidelines. Was he going to light it up? No but given the lack of focus by most of the WR's last year it would have been nice to see Ward showing the way.

 

Yep forgot Lewis and he is one that I do think showed potential and his loss is affecting the team.

 

In casually watching the games televised today I see that most of the offenses out there have QB's getting hit while they are making the throw and pockets that look about the same as Ben is getting not sure why it is more of an issue for Ben than any other QB. However that being said you have to think that tose vicious hits he takes are having an affect on his game.

 

Really? I was watching the Bengals/Pats game and the first real completion to Green that Dalton had came with a guy in his face about to sack him and it was barely 2 sec to make the throw, but he stood in and made the throw. Right before the half Brady was getting hit or the the ball tipped and his pocket wasn't something to write home about. Flipped to the Packers/Lions and the Pack's Oline was holding barely but the difference was Rodgers just kind of hanging in waiting and making the throw.

Then again I am doing other things besides watching so maybe you are right and it is just a few isolated plays I'm seeing.

 

NO I think he does sometimes and he has happy feet at others. I am not going to turn this into one of those things where it appears I am slamming Ben and don't see reality. However the Oline play isn't as abysmal as some say it is, it is not great but not as horrible as advertised. BF I said it several times these past weeks when Ben has stood in there and made the throw good things happen and some of them turned to great things. My comments were geared more towards people claiming that the minute he snapps the ball he is being hit(it did happens a few times) and how other teams don't have that happening or ones who state Ben gets hit on every drop back while others don't which just plain false because the games I watch the Qb gets hit more often than not delivering a pass.

 

Yep. I've said for 5+ years now that Ben makes our Oline look worse than it really is. When the pocket begins to collapse, Ben scrambles around like he's having a seizure. Once that happens, the Oline no longer know where he is and they cannot block for him no matter how good they are. Ben needs to stand in there until he get hit. He needs to take 1 step to the left or right, or 1-2 steps up into the gap, but he has to stop scrambling as much as he does. That might mean taking more sacks than he wants to, but I think that will lead to more good things long term. One thing it will really do is help the Oline block and that will give them confidence. Once he scrambles, the Oline can't do their job.

 

It wasn't an insult towards Ben, it was supposed to be somewhat humorous.

 

Believe it or not, not everything is an insult towards Ben lol.

 

well this season we have lost 4 games, and well the coaches havent changed anything haha...But really veteran leadership comes and goes, its a thing that gets passed on from generation to generation. We shouldnt have to keep older guys longer to save leadership, guys should step up when their mentors or leaders have moved on. So I believe in our scenario its lack of guys stepping into that unfulfilled role. And a lot has changed in the past year, new ST coach, OL coach and scheme, loss of key guys such as Kenan Lewis (which I think is a bigger loss than some like to admit)... as well as others. Every team has what if's, and how abouts, but when you're sitting at 0-4, you question them much much more.

 

This is a good point.

 

He is a quarterback, not w WR or running back. He shouldn't have to run for his life each play.

 

It makes perfect sense. He doesn't need to scramble like he does, many times he can simply move around in the pocket while keeping his eyes down field. He needs to learn to slide more and scramble less. If that means taking more sacks, then so be it, but it will help his Oline as they will always know where he is

 

I might have agreed before, but this year, all I've seen is panic from Ben when the pocket begins to collapse. He's not looking to stand in there anymore, he's looking for a way out. I think that's also why he's missing high so much this year, he's rushing everything.