Would you have...

The way Ben's looked so far this year and the way he looked to close out the year last year, we'd be doing well to get a number 2 for him.

 

You'll likely be needing this ...

 

First, I don't think Richardson is worth a first round pick at the moment. He hasn't taken his college performance and had it translate to the NFL yet. His being an ALA RB doesn't help his case either.

Second, if we hadn't drafted Bell it might have made sense for us had we not switched Offensive Line blocking schemes. Now had the draft gone the way I wanted, with us taking Arthur Brown in the 2nd, I would have given them a 2nd and potentially a 3rd combined, but not our first.

Third, I don't believe he would make our running game any better as you still have the issue of our Oline being in disarray.

 

LOL! Thanks for looking out for me, scruffy. Don't get me wrong, if we are to make a run this year I think Ben is the best hope we've got. But I've noticed that Ben does not seem to be the Big Ben of old lately. I guess it started last season after the injury. It's continued this year. He seems to be a little skiddish in the pocket, but I guess who wouldn't be behind that line. He doesn't seem to be keeping his eyes downfield to try to make a play the way he once did. I think he may have finally gone into survival mode. For the better part of a decade now he's been playing behind a line that seems bent on getting him killed! He's taken A LOT of hits over the years and I think he's incapable now of doing some of the things physically that he once did. Think about it. How long has it been since Ben has performed his late game magic and led us to a 4th quarter comeback??? Ben is 31 but he's an old 31. I hope he can recapture some of the magic but we may be witnessing the beginning of the end of an era and that's sad.

 

This, is why we are in the position we are in...we need starters with talent while other teams have backups with talent.

Who could we get a second round for?

Hood-no
Heyward- no
an injured Pouncey-?
Decastro-?

 

No problem Jack, ya just got a "sneek peak" at my new avatar if we go 0-4.

 

Why is it that QBs like Manning and Brady can go through 500 OCs and still look like elite quarterbacks, but Ben NEEDS the RIGHT OC in order to be successful? Don't get me wrong, BF, I haven't been particularly happy with Haley up to this point and you know I've been his biggest proponent on this board, but Ben has no one to blame for his failures ON THE FIELD but himself and by the same token no one can take the credit for Ben's successes ON THE FIELD but himself. Ben is responsible for preparing for the opposition, for getting himself ready to run the plays that are called successfully, to watch film and understand the defense that he's going against, what their tendencies are, what their weaknesses are and where he can best exploit them. He doesn't to that effectively. Now I'm not with the team on a weekly basis so I don't know this for sure, but my perception, and others' too, of Ben is that he doesn't do a good job of preparing for the opposition. Up to this point he's been able to punch them in the mouth harder than they punched him in the mouth because of his physical prowess. I fear that those days are over. If Ben has a sucky year, he'd better not go and blame Haley, Tomlin or anyone else. The ELITE quarterbacks don't have to do that.

 

Well, we've had this discussion before and both know the other's opinion quite well. I think we do agree on one thing as you mention above, the problem with Ben is his head. You say that his head is fighting against his instincts and that may be true. I just think he needs to learn how to use his head a little more effectively. If he wants to prolong his career and be successful on the backside, he'd better!

 

Too right. I see several post suggesting that several QB hungry teams would willingly give up a first to get Ben. I am not so sure. He is a heck of a competitor and can win the big game but there is also a lot of negatives as well. IF many are to be believed in order to get full value for Ben you need to have and OC that understands him and will design a playbook around his unique skills. What team is going to do that knowing it would take at least a full season if not two to get all the kinks worked out. I think it a bit strange that fans are wanting to protect Ben so much. I am not talking about protecting him on the field but rather the way he plays. He is a 10 yr vet in the NFL, he played 3 yrs in college and yet some how it is unfair to him to ask him to comprehend let alone execute a dump off pass instead of running around like a mad man looking to make a thirty yard play. That this experienced player can be soo screwed up by being asked to make short precise throws and methodically move the chains that he needs legions of fans to blame the OC , call for his firing and stand on a soapbox proclaiming how Ben needs to be allowed to be Ben and this guy or that guy is trying to make him something he is not. I don't get what Haley is doing that is wrong, other than trying to make Ben a better player, to rely on something other than pure talent, to prepare, learn, to adapt. Apparently this 31 yr old QB who has played football for over 13 yrs is the equivalent of my two year old, who screams bloody murder when he doesn't get his way.

 

Seriously? You are going to suggest that the play Haley called led to Ben getting hit...in a football game. That it was the play the responsible for that injury.

 

I disagree. I would be all for Ben being Ben a few years ago, you know the times where is he didn't see anything coming open he would tuck it and run and pick up positive yards. Back before the knee injuries, the ankle injuries, the hurt ribs. Watching him scramble around, back track, spin even further back and eventually get sacked on Monday night, in a field possession game when he has a RB wide open for at least and 8-10 yard gain is just wrong. The Ben being Ben way of playing is becoming costly to more than just Ben. One of the best plays for the Steelers Monday night was when he stood tall in the pocket saw sanders and delivered the throw and let Sanders make a play. it wasn't Ben creating on the fly it was Ben and the offense executing the play.

Manning changes himself he doesn't need anyone to change him, there is a reason why they Broncos outscore teams in the third by almost double. He makes changes. As far as Brady goes BB has him programmed for every game. His is force fed that gameplan till he can execute in his sleep.

 

It doesn't have to be sandlot that gets him hurt on that play. You are right when you say his head is messed up although I don't think it has to do with Haley and the system. In Haley's offense or at least the one he wanted to run to protect Ben you have to trust the play call and the receivers. Make the presnap read, deliver the ball. Ben hesitates and convinces himself the WR has no shot and then pulls it back and begins to think about where to go what to do. !st sack of the TItans game, three step drop on a slant route, pump fakes it instead and half a second later he gets sacked. Make the throw, maybe it gets blocked, maybe it is caught maybe picked off, but you have to trust the play and the players. I haven't seen him trust that throw since Hines was 100% healthy

 

I think the things that Haley is trying to change about Ben could be positive changes. Thorn talks about Ben trying to make the big play every play and he's right. When was the last time you saw Ben throw the ball away when there was nothing there? He needs to learn at times when you've avoided the first wave if nothing's there just heave it into the stands! When was the last time you saw Ben effectively execute a screen? We are the worst team in the league. A screen is a relatively simple play and is not that hard to pull off, but Ben doesn't like the screen because he's not slinging it 40 yards downfield so I don't think it's something he puts a lot of emphasis on in his during practice time. I'll betcha that Manning practices the screen EVERY WEEK because he knows how effective it can be. I guarantee you that Brady and Brees PRACTICE firing the ball out to their outlet when nothing longer is open. It's like the elite quarterbacks fully understand that the passing game can just be an extension of the running game at times. Ben doesn't seem to get that. To him, it's the running game or it's the GO PATTERN. Some of that is play design but most of it is what the quarterback does when the ball is in their hands.

 

NO .. remember we already have the savior of the steelers on the bench "tinker" bell.. LOL.. im sure once we get him and miller back we will be fine (sarcastic) .. i bet we will be up to 12 or 13 points a week (just like i predicted in pre season )

HINES

 

"tinker" bell .. if we ever see him... i said he'd be out 6 weeks and everyoen laughed and said oh no oh no.. well guess what.. looks like hes out 6 weeks.. or longer...God i hate it when im right and it hurts the steelers

HINES

 

OF course he gets on the field.... but how long will he stay on the field? thats the question and how good will he be in hte time he is on the field until his next injury...

HINES

 

That's a bold quote, even with those players I haven't seen any evidence they can light up the scoreboard like that. They can't even get a first down

 

The thing is when those plays work it is great and you have Gruden just tickled to the point of peeing because he can talk about Ben extending the play. When they don't work it gets blamed on the Oline not protecting him or the OC not calling the right play and forcing Ben to extend the play. I mentioned this last week I think go back and look at the first down completion to Brown in the Titans game where Ben takes off and scrambles around forcing the WR to break off their routes and get open. It is a great play and everyone is going classic Ben creating and extending the play. Problem is he didn't have to take off. The Olie does their job, picks up the blitz, keeps everyone blocked to the outside, provides a good pocket all he has to do is step into the trow and deliver the ball. Instead he doesn't like what he sees(?) feels that the pressure is coming(?) and takes off between Decastro and Gilbert and runs towards the sideline where he has no one blocking the Titans defense from him, Oline then has to scramble to protect him and typically where they can take a penalty. Ok wost case scenario there but the play worked Ben is Ben, fans are happy!