there are deeper problems then whats on the surface

we have an older qb that was great in a power, type of offense where he didn't have to get rid of the ball quick and make quick decisions. ala, brady and peyton. just not what he's good at.

the new OC is trying to run a brady and manning type of offense to keep ben on the field.

just like our o-line which played better, but as I've said before are not meshed well with each other's skillsets. neither is ben with Haley's O.

this isn't either of their faults. it's what they are asked to do.

we don't have the players in place. we have a hodge podge going on right now. AB is not a #1. sanders is not a deep threat. our RB's are not built for anything but a power game. we are in a semi rebuild because we have a few more years with ben on a large contract.

I don't trust Colbert and MT to rebuild this the way they are going about it, and a major decision is coming for the rooneys and their team moving forward.

do we build, or rebuild a team around an aging QB that doesn't fit the OC's system or do we build a team around the OC's system?

Colbert has thrown money into the wrong players. this is not a one or two or three year fix. it is however getting a little clearer about why landry jones was picked though. ( no don't think i'm saying he should take over for ben right now) but he fit's Haley's system better. I've talked about that before. he's more of a quick throw qb. that is what they had him doing at Oklahoma.

the question is, are we going to build around haley and that type offense or rebuild around a qb that we know when it's done may be retiring?

because right now the parts don't match. i'm not even sure they match with jones either, unless haley is going to stay for years to come and see it through.

this team is in a holding pattern of the old system which most of those players are gone and a new system which they aren't here yet.

it's not going to work with both systems trying to be forced in half azzed.

take this for what you want but, it's not a downer on anyone but a decision has to be made by the rooney's which way they want to go before this gets better and we see steelers 2.0.

 

the problem is the starting five olinemen.

I would make some serious cuts next year and find me the best offensive tackle (veteran) and offensive guard (veteran).

I don't think Foote will be back next year. I would not resign Clark. I would serious gut this team to put a caliber offensive line in front of Ben.

 

as I stated, this isn't a quick fix. we don't have that technician at qb to run this style of offense that is Haley's offense. the rooney's hired him to run this. do we build or rebuild around it or a qb that will be gone by the time it's done if we go another route? this isn't a couple of year proposition.

 

we have to find a ben replacement first ..landry is not the answer .

 

Landry just might be the answer, at least give him enough time to learn the pro game before you write him off, nobody thought Brady a 6th round pick was the answer either........

 

BF I agree 100% on the importance of the next 2 games. If they can win them they have a chance for the rest of the season to mean something interesting. Breaking the season into quarters, that would put us at 2-2 for the first quarter which certainly isn't great but it's not the end of the world. If we can go 3-1, 3-1 and 2-2, in any order, for the next three quarters of the season we are 10-6 and probably win the division. I don't think there is much chance of a wild card team coming from our division.
If they can't win the next two games, one at home and one at a neuteral site, they don't deserve to be any kind of factor this season IMO even though I will watch and root for them each and every week. As you said, they do need some key pieces back on the field and some better game planning and play calling sure wouldn't hurt. Living in Minneaplois, I saw both games the Bears and Vikings have played this season and IF the Steelers can play anywhere near their capabilities, they SHOULD be able to win those two games. Big IF and big SHOULD but I still believe they can rebound enough to pull out wins in the next two games.

 

Our QB is more than good enough to run Haley's offense, when he has no protection and nobody to throw to then what? Cotchery can't catch the ball unless he is wide open and the ball hits him square in the numbers and he won't go after the ball anywhere else either. We field a TE that can't block or run routes and we filed an offensive line that bleeds worse than Arturo Gotti after a 12 round pummeling. Did you haapen to see Mr, Brady play against the Jets? He isn't lighting up now because he doesn't have any TE in the game that can block or run a route, a good TE is a blocking and receiving threat but not what have. I stick up for #7 because I have suffered with bad QB's for over a decade, Haley's offense relys on people getting open and quick passes and when teams know your line can't block they play press coverage and take away the short stuff and that is what we saw, nobody getting open quickly and guys not getting separation. On the defensive side, zero sacks, zero turnovers and the inability to once again stop a mediocre RB from running right at...Ziggy Hood again. Keisel, is old and itsn't much better but at least he will move the pocket, we need help on the D-line as well as the o-line, once that is fixed it will help a bit but until the o-line can give #7 some time to find a guy the offense will look just as bad. Put P.Manning or T. Brady behind this line and it would just as ugly if not worse, you fail to see that and if you don't remember Kent Grahm or Bubby Brister, well then you really don't know what we have because I suffered through those years for far too long.

 

After being at the game last night I can say that I think Mac is right about deeper problems. There are a lot of things the camera doesn't pick up on and one of them is the absolute lack of chemistry. I don't know if tv showed this either but Ben is NOT happy right now. When he called timeout at midfield he went over to the coaches and was slamming his fist in the air while talking to them. Also it is obvious in person that our wr can not create separation. Probably the main thing last night that burned me up was Haley's insisting on Cotch when Wheaton is a MUCH faster guy and then Haley calls an end around to Cotch WHILE Wheaton is on the field??? I almost blew my top when that happened. You could just tell that there is a really awkward feel to the sidelines and I know SBD was at the game and I'd be curious to know if he looked for these things too. We desperately need Heath back to atleast have a threat to move the chains and that Ben is truly comfortable with. I think Mac is absolutely right about Sanders. He's not a deep threat. He's a YAC type guy. The other fans I was talking to were all saying what I was saying and what Mac is saying. We have no playmakers. Wheaton and Moye deserve a shot because it's obvious Ben and Cotch are not on the same page. I say Haley goes LONG before Ben though and I'm totally fine with that.

 

I agree with everything you said. And I, too, nearly lost it with the end around to Cotch.

Ben was livid during the timeout and the camera clearly showed it.

 

Ok I wasn't sure if the camera showed it or not but at that very moment this clarity came over me that let me know we've got serious problems. I can't remember ever seeing Ben so mad. During the BA days when Ben would throw a pick he would sorta just shrug it off and walk over to the sidelines or when he would get sacked he would just get up and play. Obviously as fans it would burn us up but what we couldn't tell was that Ben had the actual confidence that we would quickly get the ball back or that another big splash play would soon happen. I think under Haley he feels like a puppet and he's just not comfortable with everything being so orchestrated. We ALL want Heath back but NObody wants him back more than Ben and I would bet the house on that! I still really don't think BA could fix this either though because there just aren't any playmakers. We've got a personnel problem and it's blatantly obvious. I just don't think you can be competitive in the NFL with a team of roleplayers. Basically the only team we've seen do it are the Pats I would say and I'm talking about the Pats that won the Super Bowl. The Pats have had actual stars in these last few years but when they won the Super Bowls they had no wr's in the pro bowl. That would be an incredible accomplishment in today's NFL because of the passing game dominating. I would love to see Ben have a true number one and if Bell can be just a SMALL threat that will open at least a seam in the passing game because teams will have to account for him. Right now they can just tee off on Ben and play the pass because we have no rb. We have 1 guy that wouldn't be starting for ANYbody and 2 guys that wouldn't even be in the LEAGUE for crying out loud! How can we wind Beard??? HOW??? Let's just fall to pieces together. LOL.

 

Yeah he was but the Bungles crowd went OFF when they showed that replay and Lewis immediately threw the flag. I don't know if this translated to the screen but their crowd was on fire last night and our fans really didn't show up much for that game. I noticed it from the stands and then later on the radio they said on WDVE they figured it was probably 80-20 in favor of the Bungles. Tomlin wasn't lying when he called it a hostile environment.

 

I agree Ben is not a Brady type QB. Ben won't complete 7 passes in a row dinking and dunking down the field. He is good, but not that consistent.

I also agree Ben can't take hits and I understand what Haley is doing.

I do wish we had an offense like 2004/2005. Power running that could not be stopped and let Ben kill people deep off playaction. He is one of the best QB's going deep on playaction.

 

I was a huge Haley defender because I've seen what he can do as an OC, but at this point I don't care if he stays or goes. Whatever it takes to fix this thing needs to be done. If that means firing Haley, then do it already and lets to try salvage this season. The Ravens fired their OC mid-season and won the SB. Different sport, but the New Jersey Devils once fired their head coach mid-season and then won the Stanley Cup. Firing a coach mid-season doesn't have to be a bad thing nor is it always an overreaction. Do we have enough talent to squeak into the playoffs? If Tomlin, or Colbert, or the Rooney's (or whoever the hell is in charge in Pittsburgh) believes the answer is yes, then make the necessary changes and lets play for this year. The way we're going now were playing for a top 5 pick.

On another note, I keep hearing how Ben can't stand in the pocket and make quick, accurate throws. Really? An NFL QB can't do that? If that's the case, dump him because he's completely useless. He's not the same sandlot player he once was. He's lost a ton of his athleticism and can't make the same plays he once could. So if he can't make throws from the pocket, then it's time for him to go, because any NFL QB that can't make throws from the pocket is a waste of a roster spot.

 

you my friend have missed every point I posed entirely, and your not alone in this thread. i'm not picking on ben or anyone else, it's about what direction this team is destined for. right now it's a complete lack of what direction they want it to go by the people we are putting on the field, or will put on the field and where we go in the future.

the steelers organization isn't going to build a team around a qb that's bens age, unless it's for the short term. if that's the case, Haley's offense is not suited to ben for it to run efficiently. we have a modge podge of players with no clear cut direction right now.

are we building for the future without ben or for now until ben retires in a couple of years?

we can't do it half and half or we wind up with what's on the field now. it's not as simple as getting heath back. that's a short term solution , because heath is getting up there too.

we don't have the players in place to be a championship team right now like it or not. where do they take it from here is what i'm wondering. we have gotten rid of way more talent then we have put back in place if we are trying to build for the short term with ben.

 

First Landry Jones and the NFL should not be in the same sentence! If the past two weeks area preview of the offense this year, Haley will be gone by Week 8 ( mark that down) Ben is capable of running this system as long as Adams and Gilbert aren't starting. At this point those two are wasted draft picks which is exactly why we are an average team the next two years. Too many missed draft picks! Being average is NOT Tomlin or Colbert's fault, but rather a players fault. The talent is what it is, and won't change much the next couple of years.

 

When Ben is talking more to Tomlin than Haley on the sidelines, your damn right there are deeper problems. The question is what/when are the Rooneys going to do to fix it.

 

it is colberts fault. he drafted them. he's the GM. ben had more time last night then he's had in a long time. those throws were butt ugly at times.

ben will never thrive in this type of offense with these players around him. do you as the rooney's rebuild around a 32 year old qb? that's the question.

 

i think they are starting to rebuild around him then they will see , when they will get a shot to draft a qb that can be good they will try to trade him