DISCIPLINE! Is it our biggest problem?

This article makes the case that it could be. It also implies that the HC could be the problem.

http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/a...teelers_5_lessons_from_the_preseason/14433449

...it looks like this season is going to be a repeat of last if the preseason is any indication. In each game of this preseason the Steelers had five or more penalties resulting in at least 40 yards of penalization against the Steelers. This is a phase of the game that head coach Mike Tomlin talks about on a regular basis, and for some odd reason week after week nothing looks like it changes. Is this because Tomlin is a bad disciplinarian or because the players just don’t care? I think its a combination of both. When compared to the coaches of the Steelers’ past (mainly Bill Cowher) he doesn’t seem to do much on the sideline. Unlike Cowher he doesn’t pull players off to the side and gives them a piece of his mind.

I realize that coaching styles are different, but do the players fear/respect Tomlin the way they need to? We seem to make the same mental errors, commit the same dumb penalties and come out flat and uninspired week in and week out. Is this a direct reflection of the HC. I'm not ready to write Tomlin off just yet, but I do have some nagging concerns about his ability to lead. You can argue that we've been to two Super Bowls under his leadership, but was he really leading the team? We had a TON of veteran leadership on those teams and much of it is now gone.

Thoughts?

 

I believe Tomlin is our biggest problem and I've been saying that for years. It seems as if Tomlin has no answer when issues arise. He can talk a big game, but it's clear that it's just that, talk. Special teams and Oline have been weak areas since he took over this team and he apparently has no clue how to fix these areas. We can put some blame on Colbert and say he's drafting the wrong guys, but many other coaches take UDFA's and coach them up. Tomlin can't even seem to coach up 4 high draft picks on the Oline.

Then there's the issue with always coming out flat. It's been that way for years now. The boys look uninspired out there, almost like they aren't ready to play football.

Penalties are also a huge problem and Tomlin seems to have no solution on how to fix it.

The guy hasn't shown an ability to improve weak areas of the team.

 

I agree with this , and have for many years, i believe that all the talent that has been on this team since Tomlin has been here has made him look like a better coach than he is. And now its starting to sho..

 

JackAttack,

Being undisciplined as they are, is the major reason we have a hard time with Haley's type of offense. The short plays the we try to methodically go down the field to score. We cannot consume long drives with multiple plays because with our discipline something bad will happen along the way, like penalties, wrong route, fumbles, and once in a while a stupid play call.

Haley's type of offense is more suited for a Belichek type of team that makes minimal mistakes. The present combination we have now with MT and Haley's offense does not bode well for us. In the past with Arians offense we were the same undesiplined team but made it up with longer plays and a quicker strike offensive scheme.

i'm not saying that Arians type of offense was better, cause I wanted him to to go, it was just more suited for an undisciplined type of team.

 

i'm completely with you , i think the rooney will see that soon or later

 

The funniest thing about this Tomlin sucks thread, when it comes to penalties we were in the top 10 overall for fewest penalties (6th).

 

A few wins to open up the season will make alot of this Tomlin Trash Talk go away for a while.

 

Strummer, I didn't intend this to be a "Tomlin sucks" thread, but I think there are some legitimate concerns about Tomlin's coaching style that are interesting to discuss in this forum. All coaches have deficiencies and it gives us fans something to talk about.

Now, your point is a good one. Maybe we are more disciplined when it comes to penalties than most fans and the writer of the attached article believes. How do you explain our perceived lethargy to open games? We just don't seem prepared many games.

 

I already left my comments in the ...
http://thesteelersfans.com/forums/showthread.php?6832-Tomlin-and-his-staff

Edit: (see last page)

 

I think there are two parts to that question. First off, we're not as good as some fans believe and secondly as fans we frequently underestimate our opponents. You see complaints about how we play down to our competition(a statement dating back to Cowher). In reality we're closer to being an average run of the mill team than a great team. People like to point to our victory over the Ravens with Batch, but the Ravens we beat and the Ravens that won the SB were not the same team.

Edit

I'll add to that a little. In 2012 our offense was a joke. Haley put together a square peg in a round hole offense. We had a stable of average at best running backs with a cobbled together offensive line. Put those two things together and our run straight up the middle game put is in 3rd and long far too often. Ben did an amazing job at converting a lot of those 3rd downs, but it's no way to put together sustained drives. Great offensive teams run like a well oiled machine. The Steelers of 2012 and preseason 2013 are more of a wing and a prayer offense. It's exciting at times, but frequently infuriating and nowhere near an above average offense. It will be a few weeks before we have a good understandign of the 2013 Steelers, but what we've seen so far doesn't leave me with the warm and fuzzies. From waht we've seen we still don't pass block very well, still have troubles picking up blitzes, and they don't get much push run blocking.

 

Agreed. And I think that was proven the next week when we got trounced at home by a below average Chargers team. To me, that was the pivotal game in what turned out to be a very disappointing season. We had a great opportunity to seize the momentum in that game and just didn't seem prepared to do so. IF we lay a couple of eggs like that this season, the scrutiny on Tomlin we increase exponentially!

 

put me down for tomlins lack of control and the conditioning of the players and all the injuries...

HINES

 

I can't say much because I guess you could say I'm a Tomlin supporter....Well put it this way, I don't express hate (as in hate for his coaching style) as some of you do here on a regular basis. My only beef with him is I wish he wasn't so much of a "players" coach. Its nice that the players love playing for him, but wouldn't we all love a boss at work who lets you do what you want without consequences? I look back to Cowher, his team loved him and wanted to win for him, and when someone messed up, the chin came out and he was on their A$$. Tomlin needs some more fire, show some attitude and gain respect.

 

you are spot on JAD and this is exactly how I feel about this offense. ben is the key to coming up with some plays to keep the chains moving when they stumble. i'm not sure it will work as often as we may need it to though.

you definitely hit the nail on the head though. this is an offense that has to run perfect, to succeed on a CONSISTANT basis.

 

people sometimes expect one coaches process to be similar to another coaches process. MT doesn't show his emotions the same as cowher did. screaming and spitting is not MT's MO. maybe sometimes to a fault. haley throwing a tantrum by screaming at guys like in the past have a negative effect sometimes too.

tomlin could use a little more piss and vinegar in his approach and haley a little less. I think haley has shown, that he can adjust from last year to this year in his approach, but MT doesn't. he could stand to throw a hissy fit once in awhile I think, to keep the players accountable. n

oll had a presence about him. he wasn't afraid to let players know where they stand with him, MT is more of a delegator.

I don't think haley is in the front office's plans of becoming the next head coach.

 

Personally, I think the Salary Cap Situation, may be just as big if not bigger problem.

If you think this year's "negativity" towards Tomlin, the Team, etc is bad, wait until next year.

 

I agree. I don't think Tomlin's career hinges as much on wins and losses as it would if he was the coach of most other franchises. I think the Rooney's are willing to wait for the wins to come provided there's a light at the end of the tunnel. If this year is anything like last year, there wont' be a light at the end of the tunnel. In fact, with such little depth at so many positions and an aging QB, we'd be heading in the wrong direction if it doesn't come together this year. So when people say that Cowher had X number of 8 win seasons, that means nothing to me. An 8-8 season can be justified at times provided the coach has a plan in place to fix the deficiencies and an ability to act on that plan.

I have no doubt Tomlin has a plan to improve weak areas of the team, but I doubt his ability to act on it. My knock against Tomlin is that he can take a good team and have them play well, even all the way to the SB, but when it comes time for him to step up and rebuild a piece of the team, he has shown no ability to do it.

Colbert has proven himself in the past, so I'm of the opinion that the players were drafting our fine, it's the coaching that's lacking.

 

Many players would also say that Coughlin isn't a players coach either, but the guy is a winner. I'm not convinced that Haley is in the running for the job assuming it becomes available, but it wouldn't shock me if it happened. I do think Haley has shown he can win, and I bet he'd be willing to tone it down a fair bit if the Rooney's requested he do so.

 

He definitely adjusted his style and did town it down a fair bit. I watched that Road to the Superbowl show when the Giants won it the first time, and it talked about Coughlin having to adjust his approach. With that said, I have still heard that a lot of players don't like him. My only point was that I don't think you need to be a true players coach to keep the respect of the locker room. Assuming Haley one day did get the job and he wasn't successful, I don't think it would be because of his personality. If the Rooney's told him to tone it down a bit, I'm sure he would, although he's always going to have a firey personality.

 

I've honestly wondered if Tomlin doesn't want to show a lot of emotion after he got burned by his comments in 09. We didn't unleash anything but misery on the fans. I wonder if he took that as a lesson learned? We all still talk about the stupidity of that comment. I would LOVE to see some footage of Tomlin breaking down film and just see how in depth he is as an offensive guy. I also don't really like the "players coach" approach. I know players might like that but I think the coach is ultimately a superior and not an equal. I wonder what Tomlin considers himself? I do think Tomlin does get on to the players a little bit though. I saw an NFL Films "wired" segment with him and it was in a game against Carolina and he was telling Ben since we had a big lead that if he started trying to play sandlot that he was gonna pull him. So he probably does do more than we think but I think really fans like to see coaches go off on players because it is a way for us to vicariously do it ourselves ya know?

 

I would never be the type of guy to rub anything like being spot on with a prediction like that in anybody's face, BF. BUT...who called the Haley signing a good two weeks before it was even being talked about??? :innocent:

I will say this though, if Haley's offense doesn't improve this year I'm going to be his biggest critic!

I can, however, see a scenario where he becomes the Steelers HC, even though it's a long shot.