Mike Tomlin is stepping down from the Steelers

2006 was just a down year after winning the super bowl,similar to 2009.They were 15-1 in 2004 and won in 2005.They had a super bowl winning core in 2007 despite the down year in 2006.And I don't disagree for the chiefs,I think the chargers and broncos are better for now

 

How good was the defensive gameplan in 2004 when the defense gave up 34 points in the AFCCG?

 

A bit better.The pats had 4 punt in 2004 vs only 1 in 2016 and this is despite the spygate in 2004

 

Exactly!

 

This message board sometimes...

Guys that have complained for years about members of this board sh!tting on the current coach are now sh!tting on the current coach in defense of the former one.

Just so we're clear on the rules of the game though, McCarthy needs to win a playoff game in his first year with the Steelers or else the "I told you so" remarks come out, correct?

 

No, that is an opinion. Please don't make me agree with that other guy. It makes my skin crawl.

The funny part is that he is playing that game with you, yet he is the one who constantly claims that his opinions are facts.

Seriously, referring to that roster as elite is an opinion, not a fact. It may be a correct opinion or a well-supported one, but it is still an opinion.

 

Why you think that?

It was still a very talented team despite the 8-8 season.They had a down season similar to 2009 after winning the super bowl the year before.It was also the same core who was 15-1 in 2004

 

Flynn started two games during his first stint in Green Bay. The Seahawks were fooled into giving him a big contract, which was forgotten because they drafted Russell Wilson that same year.

I still have no idea how McCarthy got that much out of Rush. It gives me some hope.

 

I think that because I know the difference between a fact and an opinion. I'm not disputing that they had talent. I'm not disputing that they simply had a down year, mostly due to Roethlisberger's issues, in 2006. What I'm disputing is your misuse of the word fact, which is a common thing not just on this board, but also among people in general. When you say they had an elite roster, that is your opinion. That doesn't mean your opinion is wrong, but it is only an opinion.

What people also forget Tomlin took over a team with growing issues on the offensive line, including the departure of Hall of Famer Alan Faneca after the 2007 season. They also lost both outside linebackers, Joey Porter, after the 2006 season and Clark Haggans the following year. That position was and is a crucial part of the team. There were holes in that team, which Tomlin was able to fix well enough to win it all in 2008, but many folks here refuse to give him credit for what was an excellent coaching job.

 

granted, i know he knows better (at least i hope so).

lets put it this way, the 2006 team had a young franchise Qb coming off a super bowl win the year prior, along with a stout proven line and loaded defense (Clark and troy at safety in their prime). Now compare it to this team. I’ll leave it that.

 

..or he'll be a hero for not going 10-7 and losing the playoff game

 

Tomlin did a very good job in those teams and he was the right man for the transition post Cowher....My biggest issue on Tomlin is over the last several years,he could not build a good coaching staff around him since 2019 at least as example

And I think no one can said that the current steelers is better that the steelers of 2007 because of the team record in the previous year.In 2007,the situation was much better that this one,because Roethlisberger had a bad 2006 season but he was very good in the first 2 years and he was still young.Same for Polamalu on defense who was only like 26 or 27.The ceilling of that team was much higher that right now.

 

The current team is very obviously worse (probably much worse) than the team when Tomlin took control.

Which is why I think some people look at that and say "it's pretty crazy that we've won 60 games over the last 6 seasons with 5 playoff appearances even though the team has been pretty bad".

Two things can be true at once. (1) Tomlin wasn't good enough to get the team over the playoff win hump. And (2) Tomlin was too good to have the team do poorly and have a better chance to get an elite player or two.

 

Noll didn't have a very good team in 1989... but he managed to win a playoff game. 1996, Cowher did not have the team he had in '94-'95... but still yet won a playoff game with Tomczak at QB.

I don't think Steelers teams were that bad... from '22 to '25. It was the coaching that stunk from assistants all the way up to the HC. Insert Shanahan, McVay, Reid, etc... and their staffs and there would be better results. Most definitely.

 

McCarthy should have done the really smart thing and say that the roster sucks a$$.

 

First: It's almost like the post you quoted specifically says: Tomlin wasn't good enough to get the team over the playoff win hump

Second: I added the sarcasm font for you.

I honestly don't know how you could think that the team (particularly the offense) was good from 2022 to 2025. I'm assuming that you just went to the bathroom every time the defense got us the ball back over these 4 seasons? No shame there...the O was very hard to watch, especially over the first half of your time frame.

Or maybe you missed Kenny being outplayed by the QB3 on every team he's ever played for (currently on team 5)?

In that time, we never had more than 1 good WR on the team.

Aside from Rodgers (who is at least average), the QBs were bad (Kenny, Mitch, Mason, Fields, late career Watson).

It's funny...because my first response here was something like "I think the coaches you listed would have scored more points that we did, but probably won fewer games". And I think that's mostly true.

But a lot of people don't know that we scored more points than McVay's Rams in 2 of the 4 years (50% of the time) you're talking about. 2024 (Fields & Watson) and most remarkably in 2022 (Kenny/Mitch with Canada as an OC)!

In your timeframe 22-25, here's what the coaches we are talking about did:

1. Tomlin: 39 wins in the regular season. None in the playoffs. Easily the worst talent on his team in this group. Especially at QB.
2. McVay: 37 wins in the regular season. But 3 in the playoffs. Hilariously, outscored by the Steelers in 2/4 years in this sample...one of those years was when Canada was our OC.
3. Shanahan: 43 wins. Great in the playoffs. One of the few coaches I think generates schemes that really fit his players.
4. Reid: 46 wins. Has the best QB of his generation playing under market.

I'm not arguing that Tomlin is better than any of these coaches. But pretending that what he did with pretty bad teams over the last 4 years isn't impressive is being blinded by dislike for him IMO.

If there's a guy on this list who I think has the best chance of doing better than Tomlin with the talent we've had, I'd pick Shanahan. I don't think Purdy is a great QB. But he's been able to get good offensive production there despite QB limitations (with a pretty amazing collection of skill players...while we've generally had 1 NFL caliber WR on the roster in each of these years).

I don't think Tomlin wins as many SBs as McVay or Reid with the QBs they have.

But I don't think they win as many games as we did with the QBs we had either.

These guys just have different skills. Tomlin gives a team a very high floor and probably pulls down their ceiling.

McVay seems to be the opposite. He can win the SB one year, then get outscored by Matt Canada the next.

In some alternate universe where we trade for Stafford and win a SB, do you think Tomlin would get credit for the SB win? Or would it just be him winning with Martin Mayhew's QB?

And imagine if put Kenny up on the alter as a scapegoat to try to hide from the fact that we couldn't score against the Pats in the playoffs. Then, he goes to another team and throws for 4000+ yards in 4/5 seasons (where he had 3250 yards in the other season when playing 14 games). What would you say about Tomlin in that case? Would you talk about how he's an offensive guru who can create offensive systems where players can thrive?

Why do you think McVay scored fewer points than a Matt Canada coached offense with Kenny and Mitch under center? Doesn't that shake at least some of the faith you have that other good coaches would have automatically done better than we did? Why did this happen? Because McVay only had Stafford for 9 games that season. And who was his primary backup? Baker Mayfield! We were playing all year with Kenny and Mitch...with Matt Canada as the OC! In a system that was seemingly designed to NOT score points. And still scored more points than McVay with Stafford and Mayfield for most of the year.

I don't know how you can say that McVay does better than we did with the talent we had.

Just like I think that what we did with Ben under Tomlin doesn't give a ton of confidence that Tomlin would have done as well or better with the Rams than McVay did.

 

Yeah, I doubt Shanahan, McVay, or Reid would win in the playoffs with Pickett, Mason, Wilson, or maybe even Rodgers at this point.

 

I don't really care what other coaches may have done, that's all speculation. And it is interesting that the Steelers some how scored more points than McVays teams. Some of that may come down to more possessions a game due playing the field position and turnover game(small ball). I don't know.

Here is what I do know, watching this team the last 5 years has been a joyless grind. Really since 2019. Even the wins are gut wrenching. It's a terrible product if you view it through the lens of entertainment, which it is. It's been like watching the Pirates. The team never gets any better, or worse really. We're never building towards a crescendo. No forward momentum whatsoever. It's impossible, for me at least, to get excited for a season when you know nothing will come of it. You know they aren't winning the Super Bowl, just like the Pirates aren't winning the Series. It's a murder mystery that you already know who done it.

And everybody is so resigned to that fact that merely winning a Wildcard game anymore would probably spawn an impromptu ticker-tape parade dahntahn. Something that was once a common occurrence around here. This might be the 10th g.d. season in a row without winning one. Would you have ever dreamed the Steelers would go a decade straight without winning one playoff game? I couldn't be happier that Tomlin is gone, right or wrong.

 

i dont expect him to win a playoff game this year with 43 year old Rodgers but if he does….

 

If our division rivals, particularly the bengals and burrow had been healthy the last few years, we dont get to 10 wins and probably dont make the playoffs.

the steelers also benefited from squeezing the last bit of good play out of Russ last year for a few games and road TJ’s coattails on defense for as long as they could as well.

 

The purple text is exactly why I'm not sad to see Tomlin go (and that I was hoping - against hope it seems - to avoid the same old arguments on the internet...in part because I'm not good at letting it go).

In truth, there was a slight upward trend in the "watch-ability" of the team. But that's because the bar was so low.

They went from the least entertaining offense I've ever seen in my life watching NFL football, to somewhere around average last year.

But even that improvement feels hollow because we know that (1) there's no future in it because Rodgers is 42 and (2) there's no present because there's still no real way we can do more than some lightning in a bottle WC win in a conference where the starting QBs are Mahomes, Allen, Jackson, Burrow, Maye, Herbert, Nix, Lawrence, Stroud (who has looked rough lately)....even with Rodgers, we don't have a top 8 QB in the conference now. Maybe not even a top 10 guy.

IMO, we need to get off the treadmill here and commit to a rebuild. Hopefully next year.

 

This. We are what are record says we were.

Part of it was that we got lucky with what happened to star players in the division.

And part of it was being hell bent on not beating ourselves even though it sucked most of the the entertainment value out of watching the team (especially in the Kenny / Canada years).