What Does a McCarthy Offense Look Like?

I don't know. I just don't see the difference between this as being a coin flip:

Tomlin: 4 of 19 seasons with a playoff win, with an 8-12 playoff record. With Ben for 15 seasons. 193–114–2 (.628) regular season.
Cowher: 8 of 15 seasons with a playoff win, with a 12-9 playoff record. With Ben for 3 seasons. 161–99–1 (.619) regular season.

 

Super Bowl record for both is 1-1

 

The data are pretty similar (as you've shown here). Objectively, they're quite close.

I think upthread I was comparing the difference between Cowher and Jimmy Johnson vs the difference between Cowher and Tomlin. I think it's fair to say that the better HC was Cowher or Tomlin.

But I think it would be hard to argue that the difference between Cowher and Tomlin is large relative to the difference between either of them and Johnson. With only the stats you listed above, here's Johnson

Johnson: 5 of 9 seasons with a playoff win, with a 9-4 playoff record. 2 SBs. 80-64 (0.556) regular season.

IMO, the biggest differences are that Tomlin was better at getting into the playoffs with teams that weren't great. And Cowher was better at winning games in the playoffs. I think Cowher also generally had higher seeded teams (which probably at least partially accounted for the better record)...because Marty ball worked better in Cowher's tenure IMO.

My guess is we were favored more in Cowher's playoff runs...especially given how our last few playoff appearances were with teams that probably didn't deserve to get in. Which is why I penalize Tomlin less for the playoff record.

Tomlin wouldn't have been a better coach if we missed the playoffs every year after Ben got hurt (like we probably "deserved to"). Even though his playoff record would then look better at 8-7 (0.533)

Tomlin had Ben for longer. But also had him at a higher percentage of the cap, which made the rest of the team worse. Took over the team after a dip in performance despite a good roster. Also coached in a league where Marty-ball type football (which Cowher was still playing even with Ben) worked less and less.

Cowher did more without Ben. His biggest pre-Ben succes was with "Noll's players" pre-Ben...not sure if that discounts his success the same way people discount Tomlin's. Less QB talent, and he seemed to prefer that (Rooney said Cowher wanted an OT instead of Ben, Cowher said that's not true...but waited until after Rooney passed to say it...my guess is that it just means that there were discussions and Rooney's vote was for a QB). Did a great job (along with Tom D IIRC) identifying that Bettis was available and the perfect Marty-ball back. Several soul-crushing playoff losses at home, but they were earlier in his career and he went out on top (especially since many mostly forget his last season).

Both well above average NFL coaches. I don't think either deserves to be in the hall. But IMO Cowher got in because of the special class and because he's a prominent figure on one of the three main companies that were paying the NFL's bills at the time. My guess it that they will eventually put Tomlin in too. Especially if he's also successful on TV like Cowher has been. If it were up to me, he wouldn't get in. Cowher wouldn't have either.

Noll obviously deserves to be in. And while both Cowher and Tomlin were well above average for a long period of time in the NFL, I think they should be in the "Hall of Very Good". Just like Ward, who is among my favorite players I've seen play for the Steelers. But he's just not quite good enough for the Hall. Which is fine. I don't need the HoF to validate whether players I like a lot were good.

 

Not regular season winning percentage

 

Ive yet to understand the, its better to have a losing season, and not make the playoffs, than to have a winning season, make the playoffs, and lose in the playoffs mentality.
In every sport Ive ever played in it was way better to make the tournament, and lose than to be so bad you can't even make the tournament.

 

I remember some Steelers fans saying wait until Ben is gone Tomlin is going to get exposed, he still averaged 10 wins without Ben .

 

Bottom 10 offenses since the decline of Ben too(2019)

 

I don't think it would been better in 2003 to finish at 10-6 and not having Roethlisberger as option in 2004

 

Had that happened, Buffalo would have gotten their 2nd franchise QB instead of JP Losman... and maybe had won a Super Bowl with Ben, if they drafted a good team around him. That's the problem with current Buffalo.... they have Josh Allen, but not much else.

 

You are picking one year out of many. Try not to cherry pick.
Again for the people that did play sports.
We're you happier to make the tournament, and lose, or happier to not be good enough to make the tournament??

 

The WR group in Buffalo might be the worst in the NFL this year.

 

I'd be happy with damn franchise QB even if it meant going 5-12... in order to be able to draft him.

 

I prefer a top 5-10 pick and having the chance to draft our next franchise QB for the next decade that being 10-7 and losing by 3 scores again in the playoffs with a old boring team

 

That's awesome, but you do know that going 5-12 is no guarantee you get that guy.
Just use history

 

So you're OK with Steelers going Malone-Brister-O'Donnell-Tomczak-Stewart-Maddox... and having average seasons with an occasional playoff win than getting a franchise QB like Bradshaw and Roethlisberger and winning Super Bowls? I prefer the latter even if it means a losing season.

 

Of course you do, like you had to type that fo anyone on this board to know that.
I ask again to anyone that played sports. Were you happier to make the tournament, and lose, or happier that you weren't even good enough to make the tournament????

 

By this logic,it would been better for the Pittsburgh Penguins in the NHL to win the most games possible in 1983-1984 instead to finish last and drafting Mario Lemieux

 

I play tennis... and I lose about half the games played. So technically, I still play sports.

 

No Im happier with winning as much as possible, and getting a Qb.
History shows that if You lose it doesn't mean you will get a franchise Qb, or every team in the league would have a franchises Qb already except us, and thats not even close to true

 

I prefer to have better odds to have a franchise QB for the next decade and having a chance to be great again,so for the question,I prefer to not be enough to make the tournement if we can draft our next franchise QB....Time to look at the bigger picture!

 

And......
If You were actually playing in a league, would you be more happy to make the tournament, and lose, or be so bad you couldn't even make the tournament??

 

LoL
Again. Nothing you are telling me is new. We all on this board know you believe the only way to get a good Qb is to have a losing season. Nothing new here.


Again this is to people that actually played sports.
Were you happier to make the tournament, and lose, or happier to be so bad you couldn't even make the tournament??

 

Ill also give Cowher more points for taking over a mediocre team, they had a losing season the year prior i think. With an unstable Qb situation and turning them into a contender.

 

Jalen Hurts (2nd round, pick 53) and Tom Brady (6th round) are the only recent QBs not drafted at pick 10 or earlier to win Super Bowls.

Stafford
Darnold
Mahomes

..... all 3 drafted at pick 10 or lower. Hell... pretty sure Stafford and Darnold were both #1 overall picks, IIRC. Chiefs had to trade up to get Mahomes.