Higher in the all-time list:Brees vs Ben?

Mallet was a great Qb that couldn't get out of his own way. Last time the Razorbacks had a real team Mallet was the Qb. Mallet problem was once he made a little money he didn't care anymore. Ask the Texans who made him the starter, and then he didn't show up for the flight to the next game.

 

LoL.
Winner

 

All things are a team stat until people don't want them to be.

 

Why would you try to over-explain this? Seems like a wasted effort when the conclusion is: "I will take Ben over Brees ( Both are top 12 all time QB's in my book ) mainly because he is better in the playoffs."
I stood right there on the Washington sideline in a freezing rain and watched Brees crush the then Redskins hopes in the final 2 minutes of a game...
Of course, I take Ben.. bigger body, bigger arm, had that knack of execution when the game was on the line. 2 great QB's, different styles.

 

I think Trent Jordan Watt had more to do with those wins over LJ, than Pickett or Tomlin did. Just sayin'

Also let me know when Tomlin beat teams with Tom Brady and Peyton Manning at QB in the playoffs.... on the way to Super Bowl victory. Oh wait... he never did.

 

LoL.
A real thinking man would wonder why what You said makes sense in anyway. How can one person be the reason at one time for winning, and not the the reason at a different time?? LoL.
How is it if a player is good under Tomlin its because he was a awesome talent, and if he was bad it was because the coaches sucks?? LoL.
How is it if a player was better under Tomlin than before he came, or not as good after he leaves Tomlin it doesn't count, but if a player is better when he leaves it somehow means everything?
Hypocrisy?
Feelings over facts??

 

I don't know what the hell you're trying to say. TJ Watt is a HOF caliber player regardless of the coach. If Watt had went to the crappy Cowboys, he still would have been a beast. Thank the godz they drafted Taco.

Feelings don't have jack to do with it. Turnovers, stats, etc... do. Watt was a beast vs Ravens in his prime years... Steelers were the only team that could consistently beat the LJ Ravens, Bengals too when Burrow was healthy. LJ consistently choking in the 4th quarter doesn't have anything to do with feelings. Ravens offense pretty much doubled the yardage of Steelers offense, but yet Steelers somehow won... because of Watt and good play by the defense.

 

When a player sucks it's the HC fault, but if he plays good the HC gets no credit. Make it make sense .

 

Quite a bit of non sequiturs and not a lot of evidence to support claims I see. Player vs Player is about achievements; not who looks better. Results matter. One has more NFL Records and awards. The other doesn't. One had to carry his team. The other wasn't even the best on his team for his three Super Bowl Appearances and Two wins. Most of all?! One was the more dominant player for a longer period of time. The other was for only a season.


In short?! As I said before and will again;


Dominance determines ranking. Rankings are shaped by the amount of dominance a player has. Stats and achievements allow us to rank those who are of either similar or exact ranking as either lesser or greater.


The above is a universal truth for ranking not just NFL Players but sports in general. Michael Jordan is better than LeBron James. Wayne Gretzky towers above all NHL Players. Babe Ruth generally is the GOAT of the MLB. My logic tracks and is consistent; absent what "looks good."

 

This. He knew what I was saying.

 

Unfortunately, we will have to go through a season of this before a chance to see Allar do his thing...

 

One reason why you can't always trust awards. Call it bias, momentum, whatever:

The 2011 Saints offense might be the greatest we’ve ever seen. Brees threw for 5,476 yards (an NFL record at the time) and 46 touchdowns (third-most in NFL history at the time) while completing 71.2 percent of his throws (again, an NFL record at the time). Statistically, it was the greatest quarterbacking season we had ever seen, but he was inexplicably denied the MVP.

Instead of Brees winning the award, Aaron Rodgers took it home despite being objectively worse. Rodgers threw for 4,643 yards, 45 touchdowns, and nine interceptions while completing 67.2 percent of his throws. That is an incredible season that should win MVP nine times out of 10, but you can’t look me in my face and tell me that Brees wasn’t better that year.

 

I don't agree with this...Brees was amazing but Rodgers had one of the best season ever in 2011.He was superman.The packers were horrible on defense,they had a below average running game but they still finish 15-1 because of Rodgers.And Rodgers had those stats in 15 games vs 16 games for Brees...The MVP was not even a discussion in 2011.Rodgers was that good

 

Brees had also 150 more pass attempts that Rodgers in 2011

 

Good question. Good debate. I would think on a national level, Brees would be picked over Ben rather than in a Steelers forum.

 

Garrett over Watt is another good example of this.

I wonder if the people voting at that time were looking (or had a feel for) AY/A? I doubt they were following the analytics, but maybe they had a feel for it?

Brees was at 8.8, but Rodgers was at 10.5 (his highest ever)!

AR also had a 9% TD% (to Brees @ 7%) while also having almost half the INT% (2.1% vs 1.2%).

And like Ben, Rodgers played outside in the winter and not in a dome.

Brees also had 657 attempts to Rodgers 502. So AR's Y/A was 9.2 to Brees' 8.8 and Y/C was AR 13.5 to 11.7 for Brees.

Brees clearly had an excellent season here. But I can see the argument for Rodgers being better despite Brees having more yards (yet lower rate stats by attempt and completion) and more TDs (but lower TD% and higher INT%).

It's a little bit like Najee's rookie season. Where he played well, but the big totals are driven by insanely high volume. Note: Brees' season here is comparatively better than Najee's obviously.

 

Which is kind of fitting for Ben.

Since he was drafted 3rd of the big 3 QBs in the best QB draft of the generation.

And turned out to be the best of the three.

Like Terry, Ben will probably always be a little under-rated because he played for a defense first team. And I think the SA allegations still make him someone the MSM will stay away from touting too much.

Aside: While it's not as personal to us, Eli vs. Rivers is probably also an interesting conversation. I think that Rivers might have been the better QB. But Eli was a Giant killer in those two playoff runs. Eli probably goes 2nd in the ranking of the three guys with Rivers last. Because SBs just matter so much for QBs. And if I really needed a win in a big game...it's just that I don't like Eli. Although like Peyton, I like him more post-career with the stuff they do making light of themselves.

 

Those are valid and fair points.

 

Brees was a 2nd round pick, and was let go by the team that picked him, the same team who drafted another Qb in the 1st round while Brees was on the team, and before Brees ever got hurt(many wrongly think it was after he got hurt, but they are wrong), Brees is good , Ben was great.
No HC is picking Brees over Ben to start a team unless off the field issues are also considered.

 

Thanks for this...so much fun to watch.

 

https://sportshoop.la/threads/drew-brees-or-ben-roethlisberger-who-was-better.351418/

You bunch of homers don't even realize you're homers.

 

15 people?

Again, I'm very happy to pick 2nd in this draft.

 

Regardless of what Ben was as a person, I loved him as a football player! He kept his eyes downfield no matter what, he called out guys who were not doing their job, he called out the team/coaches for not being accountable, he just wanted to win!

ETA: Plus, you can find stats to support damn near any position you wish, no matter how foolish. Ben was better eight days a week.