Joey Porter Jr contract negotiations

My experience is that this is not how negotiations work.

Both parties tend to go into negotiations with ranges of acceptable terms on a variety of parameters.

Then they sit down and ideally have some give and take across each parameter.

Note that this is not what we did with TJ's 2nd or 3rd contract where he "dominated" the negotiations by ever metric. I'm sure that going in to those negotiations we were trying to get some kind of a win somewhere. But he was just too good a player so we had to go with what appears to be the top of the range for everything. Because that was still in our acceptable range. And his 3rd contract would have undoubtedly been lower if we could have agreed to a contract early. Because Garrett reset the market while we were negotiating with TJ. TJ clearly understood that this was going to happen. And he had the ability to wait.

Garrett tried to force his way out of CLE (with 2 years remaining IIRC), so they caved on everything. Then he left anyway. But right after those negotiations, TJ said I want just a touch more AAV. Waiting pays for players.

I was really happy when it happened, but it was stupid for Minkah to sign early when he got extended (if he was primarily concerned with income). IIRC, there was at least one other S contract signed after his so he was only the highest paid S for less than an offseason. If he waited, he likely would have gone into the season as the highest paid S. [again, it was a little while ago so I might have the details wrong, but I think this is correct]

I think I heard that there are a couple (maybe a few) good CBs who are in the pipeline to sign extensions this offseason. And I don't think there has been a big CB signing recently. There's this gap between $25mm and $30mm. And if there are multiple good guys to sign, they will all fall somewhere in this gap (maybe even over $30mm, but I hope JPJ isn't there). If you're a player and you think you have any argument to be the best of the guys signing this year, you wait and hope the other guys sign first. Then, you say "I'm better than that guy and I deserve more". IIRC, this is exactly what happened with Watt and Garrett. And why Watt ended up getting a little more AAV than Garrett did. He let Garrett's team do the hard work of resetting the market. Then he just asked for a touch more.

I can't believe that we weren't trying to get in on a deal with TJ before the Garrett signing. Because we probably could have won on at least some element of the deal. But TJ understands the business of the NFL when you're an elite player. His brother had already been through it. So he waited. And maximized his income.

 

I stopped here

I spent my life doing contract negotiations

Wean spend 3 days getting to where I walked in planning to be but we will be where I plan to be or I walk out without a contract

Sure if the other side caves Earl but in 40 plus years that never happened once

 

Funny, I think TJ Watt is laughing his ass off somewhere right now.


Khan dug his own grave, signing a backup OLB to $25 million per year. How can your #1 STARTING CB, not demand more???

 

And he signed for the contract they thought was correct

Not a dollar more

 

Do you think the Steelers planned to be where we ended up in the Watt 2nd or 3rd contracts?

If so, why do you think it took so long (especially the 2nd one)?

Did they just not bother presenting the offer before then?

Or did TJ wait as long as possible to accept market setting deals because he wanted to avoid a little bit of practice?

 

Do you think that the "correct" number they had was the same before and after the market was reset for the position that offseason?

As someone who did a lot of contracts, did the price of specific goods ever change in your mind over time?

The cap in the NFL sees 20% inflation every year. This isn't something that happens linearly across all positions or over time. It happens in "fits and starts" when good players at positions sign contracts when someone else good at that position hasn't signed a contract in a little while.

That's where the CB market is now.

No one knows the "correct" number right now. Except that it's probably somewhere between $25MM and $30MM in 2024 to 2025 cap dollars.

And the structure of NFL contracts matters at least as much as the AAV.

Aside: There's a post on here about Linderbaum that demonstrates how individual contracts reset the market and change what the "correct" value looks like. I think that contract is insane. And if we pay Porter like a top edge rusher (kind of like paying a C like an elite T), then I'll be on here calling for us to fire Kahn. But I think you're right that the Steelers are generally reasonable with the contracts they sign.

 

Tell me

What is the size of the largest contract you were responsible for negotiating

 

Certainly not huge.

Six-figures for research contracts with industrial partners.

I'd imagine that there are lots of people with more experience than I have. I'm sure your experience here is more impressive than mine.

But back to what we're actually talking about...do you think the Steelers changed what they thought the "correct" number was for Watt after Garrett signed his contract?

And if the offer never changed, why do you think Watt waited till the last minute?

 

They have to sign him. I mean we are giving backup LBs 100 million dollar contracts.

 

For TJ Watt I still think it is "What they Hoped was Correct"

Something tells me Khan and Co. were "HOPING" that $40 million per year would buy them more than 7 sack.

 

With the cap number at this time sitting at 6.09 mill not much room without them making moves.

The consensus from the Pittsburgh sports reporters is Watt possibly getting restructured and i'm sure others.

They could wait till next season, franchise Porter Jr and then sign him when there will be more in the till. The issue is would he hold out?

 

The thing is if they wait until next season, they might have to pay him even more especially if he has another good season.

 

To be fair Herbig's extension doesn't kick in until next season, maybe they trade Highsmith after the season and it's not like they're paying a franchise QB.

 

All available data for NFL contracts for top tier players demonstrates that signing early is better for the team and signing later is better for the player.

what other industry sees a 20% increase in the cost of labor year over year for infinity?

 

Ima predict JPJ falls off this season. How much is not clear. But it's not because he will play worse but because the other guys at CB will be better than last season. The targets have to go somewhere so if CB2 or 3 are better then look for QBs to take more chances against JPJ, who usually covers WR1.

 

LOL. Now we've got a poster thinking his own supposed history with negotiations somehow makes him an expert on how negotiations work in the NFL. That is some funny stuff.

Of course, it's the same guy who thinks that the Steelers overpaying Watt and Herbig isn't relevant to a discussion of them possibly not locking down an elite young cornerback.

 

You really don't think they have enough money to pay JPJ right now?

 

Trade him.

 

Please find the post in which I wrote that. Oh, right. You can't.

What I'm saying is that overspending on Watt makes it more difficult to pay Porter, not impossible.

Are you one of those people foolishly arguing that it doesn't matter when the team wastes a huge chunk of its cap room on overpaying players?

I know we have one poster here making false claims about that and so many other things and covering them up with lame personal attacks on me, but I didn't realize you were buying into his nonsense.

 

Make up some foolish bs and post it

Then rather than admitting you are wrong just keep posting the same foolishness

Stomp your feet a few times

It seems to be a poor communication skill but it appears English is not his forte



Watt Najee Pickens Pickett and the list goes on

And if you have never been a leader never negotiated never really did much of anything you can still claim to know more on any subject than those who have

No need for verifiable facts or the truth

Sure makes sense to me



I think I hear a ladder and megaphone being dragged down the hall

 

People who handle or have handled negotiations effectively tend to understand the difference between facts and opinions.

 

We have an expert in contract negotiations on the board.

This place is awesome!

yes, this is sarcasm.

 

It's the guaranteed money that is the sticking point. Any savvy GM can deal with the cap. That should not factor in the Steelers negotiations. Cash flow is a prime factor.

 

See

Isn’t it fun to learn

Unfortunately some posters fail to accept the help

 

Careful. The negotiator will start insulting you if you dare say something that might call his self-proclaimed brilliance into question.