Who are the Steelers most under/overrated players of all-time?

True.The 1978 new rules was a major change for the passing game and it just continued to evolve after that... The 2004 rules and the 2010 or 2011 safety rules were a massive change too.

 

You can't untangle the effect James Harrison had on Woodley's game. It was not often one played without the other in the game. Steelers don't get to the playoffs without Harrison. Harrison had 11 double digit tackle games vs Woodley's 1. Harrison had six 3 sack games, Woodley none.

The JAX playoff with Woodley's 2 sacks? Harrison had 1.5. BUT, Harrison finished with 10 tackles to Woodley's 3. Who had the bigger effect on the game? Woodley was a flash in the pan compared to Harrison's career.

 

He wasn't comparing Woodley and Harrison. He was comparing him to Greene, who also had a stud playing at the other outside linebacker spot.

 

Under-rated by the fanbase, or just in general? Because that can be very different answers.


Example, I feel like the fanbase under-values BigBen somewhat. Generally, I hear he was very good but not elite and not a first ballot HoF. It's debatable amongst the fanbase. While I experience fans of other teams say they have no doubt he's a first ballot level QB. It's not even a serious discussion with them.


There are other examples of this. I feel like James Conner was under-rated more by the fanbase than by the rest of the league.

 

If I compared Woodley to Deebo you would have a great point. I did not despite the FACT that Woodley had outpaced Harrisons 6.5 sacks with 11 at the point he left the Steelers.

It took Woodley only 7 games to get his 11 sacks. Harrison played in 22 and retired with that same number of sacks.

That is not a bash of JH, I know teams feared him and gave him more attention to Woodleys benefit. Harrison was a MUCH BETTER RYN DEFENDER no question. HARRISON AND TROY ARE MY FAVORITE STEELERS OF THAT ERA. I intentionally compared him to sack specialists who get more love.

That is why I never bought his name up. But here is the deal. Nobody says Woodley is better than JH. He is underrated because EVEN ON THIS THREAD he has been bashed as overated DESPITE the following contribution-

WHEN WOODLEY RETIRED HE WAS SECOND ONLY TO LC GREENEWOOD IN STEELER PLAYOFF SACKS BEING A KEY COMPONENT TO HIS TEAM TO REACHING TWO SBs AND WINNING ONE.

LC played in 18 playoff games and has only 1.5 more sacks than Woodley got in his first 7 playoff games.

Yet on every forum Ive been on Im like a lone voice giving the man his props. He is bashed FAR MORE OFTEN than given props.

ON THIS THEAD he has been called overated multiple times. Why?

His MAIN JOB is putting QBs on their back. He did that when it counted in the playoffs with more consistency than and player in franchise history.

Does that alone make him a HOFer? No. Does that make him better overall than Harrison or TJ? No.

But the man deserves MUCH MORE respect from fans who act like he was a bum.

 

Woodley was a fantastic player before he ruined his career by becoming fat and lazy.

 

When I rate a player I rate his career. Woodley was nice and all. His career could have looked a whole lot different.

 

he was bigger than Swann and i think he was better at protecting or shielding himself. Swann took some serious punishment over the middle especially, with those acrobatics

 

He had his own issues with injuries, but that is one thing that always impressed me about Swann. Despite his size, he was absolutely fearless going over the middle.

 

That's pretty much it. Oh, I can add satisfied. I believe it came too easy, and too fast for him, and in his subconscious, he already did what he set out to do. Two SBs, one win, and a huge contract.

 

Woodley was poor versus the run. Greene could control the edge. Woodley was a liability. Greene was the superior and more dependable run defender because he excelled at setting a firm edge and holding his outside containment. I would say Woodley was a one-trick pony that faded quickly.

On the forums I came from, Woodley was treated like a god. It was similar to how certain fans raved about Gildon.

 

The steelers had a strong run defense from 2007 to 2011 when Woodley was at his best....I don't said that it was because of Woodley but if he was a liability,the steelers would not been that strong against the run in that period

 

Ryan Clark was underrated. Troy was able to do what he did because he trusted Clark would do his job well

 

Lawrence Timmons and Dwight White also dont get enough due.

 

Nah. Troy was all pro 2nd team 04, and first team 05 with him 3rd in DPOY voting, and SB champ when Ryan Clarke was a very average Redskin. Had Clarke remained a Redskin nobody would know who he was today.

They said THE EXACT SAME THING yoou said about how Hope enabled Troy when fams panicked over losing Hope.

 

Correct 43.
Setting the edge was in fact A STRENGTH of Woodley.

He was strong which enabled him to set the edge effectively. He did not put up elite tackle numbers like JH who made more PLAYS in run D. But he was actually VERY GOOD at setting the edge.

But it seems Steeldude and I have a very different recall.
Steeldude, you would agree that setting the edge is essential to have an elite run defense right?

Do you know what season IN FRANCHISE HISTORY the Steelers allowed THE FEWEST RUSH YARDS EVER?

Lambert and Ham were not on that team.
K. Greene and Lloyd were not on that team.
Joey Porter was not on that team.

It was 2010 featuring Deebo and Woodley on the outside. Lowest run yard defense in history ON A FRANCHISE KNOWN FOR RUN DEFENSE.

Two of the five lowest rush yards allowed were 2008 and 2010.

Longest streak of not allowing a 100 yard rushers IN STEELER HISTORY?
Mid 2007-week 16 of 2009 qith Ray Rice breaking that streak. 32 games total. Woodley played in those games.

But Woodley became an actual starter in 2008.

During Woodleys first 3 seasons as a Starter 2008, 2009, 2010 that ONE GAME by Ray Rice is the ONLY 100 yard game by a Steeler opponent.

So EITHER it would be IMPOSSIBLE for a starting linebacker to be bad at setting the edge on the BEST RUN DEFENSE OF THAT ERA IN THE LEAGUE WHICH HAD A RUN DEFENSE ONLY MATCHED BY THE 1976 DEFENSE IN THE HISTORY OF GREAT DEFENSES OR-

Or setting the edge is quite insignificant in stopping the run, and therefore does not factor in much in evaluations. You

I would suggest that the first option is the accurate one. In which case your assertion has no basis in fact. Woodley was VERY GOOD at setting the edge, which was a factor in that incredible run defense.

One more point about setting the edge. This involves forcing the run inside to be cleaned up, frequently by an inside backer.

JAMES FARRIOR played inside on Woodleys side. He seemed to not have any issues with runners being funneled his way.

But had setting the edge been an issue there would be articles on it. But do a search, you will see nothing suggesting Woodley had difficulty setting the edge, but rather the opposite.

My guess is that a play or two is burned in your memory (everyone gets got sometimes).

Fact is that you are simply wrong on this one. You cannot have THAT LEVEL OF ELITE RUN DEFENSE with a linebacker who could not set the edge. You would just run at him. AND TEAMS DID THAT. You sure aren't going to favor Deebos side so he.can murder a runner.

As to the idea that "Woodley was a God" on some forum, one or two people defended him (considering your POV simply suggesting Woodley was a good player, you might say that about me), that does not make him "overrated" when I have to remind folks like you all the time that Woodley was indeed a valuable Steeler. Woodley was CERTAINLY MUCH MORE VALUABLE than K Greene who was the same guy except Greene started strong and finished weak, and was mostly a non-factor in the playoffs when it counted.

Woodley started slow but finished strong, and was at his best in the most important games.

 

BTW, the idea that Woodley got "lazy" once he got paid?
The ONLY fast start of Woodleys career was right after he got paid.

Paid in August 2011
NINE SACKS IN HIS FIRST EIGHT GAMES that season.
On his way to a career year at a Steeler franchise season record pace.

He got hurt in week 8 and was never the same player after THAT injury.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WoodLa99/gamelog/2011/

 

Whenever someone excessively complains about the Steelers losing to Denver in the 2011 season, I try to remind them that the team was injured enough that they were not the same as in the regular season. Those deep passes that dominated the WC game would not have worked if Troy was healthy (questionable on the injury report with knee and ankle problems) and if Clark wasn't out.

 

Still sucked

And beside what you posted that game was in the height of teams playing a prevent defense

The Steelers played prevent and let Denver go down the field and score a field goal right before half time

I started screaming that those 3 points were going to cost us and they did

Without those 3 points that game does not go to OT and we win

I am probably the only one who remembers that part

I think Ryan Mundy who kept taking the bait on Tebo fakes was cut from the team the next day

 

How is Harris overrated? Nobody ever talks about him. I think he's underrated if anything. He was one of the first of a new breed of big fullback types who run like halfbacks. He was a fullback at Penn State. He was a handful for defenses. When he retired he was third in all-time rushing yards behind Brown and Payton. If you'd been watching football when he was playing you wouldn't call him overrated.

 

Nah, lets not make excuses. I would suggest the issue was more about how Lebeau ALWAYS plays running QBs. I love Lebeau, think he was the best Steeler football MIND ever. But big passes by running QBs was his kryptonite.

Safeties did not matter as much as you think. He would rarely keep one deep against running QBs. The issue with those deep throws were not "who" the safeties were or health. They were in the box on many of those plays which is a coaching call (or Troy guessing wrong). On those deep throws you mostly did not see a slowed Troy or Mundy closing too late. They were playing the run and shallow routes.

Far from being a liability Mundy actually created a timely turnover, stripping the ball for the Steelers only created turnover.

This loss was a "Scheme" loss.

 

AI gave me this assessment of Lebeau versus running QBs, which mirrors what I just said earlier, and used THIS GAME as an example (my question did not mention this specific game, I just asked about Dick Lebeau versus running QBs):

While Dick LeBeau’s legendary "Zone Blitz" system was designed to keep eyes on the quarterback and limit scrambling lanes, his defenses frequently gave up shockingly high passing numbers to running quarterbacks.

This wasn't a flaw in his scheme's design; it was a deliberate, tactical trade-off. When facing an elite dual-threat or option quarterback, LeBeau operated under a strict philosophical rule: Stop the run at all costs, and force the quarterback to beat you from the pocket.

To achieve this, LeBeau would fundamentally alter his defense in ways that opened up massive vulnerabilities in the passing game.

1. Selling Out to Sell the Box (The Read-Option Counter)
Against standard pocket passers, LeBeau preferred a "Fire Zone"—rushing five players and dropping six into safe, vision-oriented zone coverage. However, against a dangerous running quarterback (like Tim Tebow, Colin Kaepernick, or Terrelle Pryor), zone blitzing became a liability. If a defensive lineman dropped into coverage while the quarterback executed a read-option, the defense immediately lost edge containment.

To combat this, LeBeau would routinely stack 8 or 9 defenders in the box to choke out the running game, assigning dedicated "spies" and concrete edge-setters to handle the quarterback's legs.

2. Abandoning the Safety Net (Cover 0 and Cover 1)
By committing so many bodies to the line of scrimmage to account for the run, LeBeau had to strip away his deep zone coverage. His defense was forced to play Cover 1 (man-to-man with only a single high safety) or, more dangerously, Cover 0 (pure man-to-man with absolutely zero safety help over the top).

This completely altered the nature of his defense:

• No Safety Help: Cornerbacks were left entirely on "islands" with no deep-half or deep-middle assistance.
• The Margin for Error Vanished: If a cornerback bit on a double-move or tripped, there was no free safety backing them up to prevent a touchdown.

3. The Play-Action Trap
LeBeau's defensive units (particularly with the Pittsburgh Steelers) were notorious for playing high-flying, hyper-aggressive, downhill football. Linebackers like Troy Polamalu, James Harrison, and Lawrence Timmons were trained to diagnose run keys and fly into the backfield.

Running quarterbacks excel at manipulating this aggression using play-action. When a dual-threat quarterback faked a handoff or feigned a keeper, LeBeau’s aggressive front seven would inevitably surge forward to plug the running lanes. This split-second hesitation by the under-coverage created vast, vacated spaces directly behind the linebackers in the intermediate middle of the field.

The Ultimate Example: The 2011 Wild Card Game
The most infamous manifestation of this flaw occurred during the 2011 AFC Wild Card game against Tim Tebow and the Denver Broncos. Tebow was a notoriously inaccurate passer, so LeBeau completely sold out to stop Denver's top-ranked option running game.

LeBeau repeatedly pulled his safeties down to the line of scrimmage, leaving his cornerbacks in single-coverage with no deep help. Tebow completed just 10 passes the entire game, but because the field was completely vacated deep, those 10 completions went for a staggering 316 yards (a playoff-record 31.6 yards per completion), culminating in an 80-yard walk-off touchdown pass to Demaryius Thomas on the first play of overtime.

LeBeau knew that leaving his defensive backs exposed was a massive gamble. But to him, allowing an erratic-passing mobile quarterback the chance to hit a deep ball was always preferable to letting them dictate the game on the ground.

For a deeper look into how these explosive downfield passing plays materialized against LeBeau's aggressive, run-heavy adjustments, watch the NFL Primetime 2011 Wild Card Playoff Sunday breakdown, which highlights how the defense's focus on stopping the run opened up the historic deep passing plays.

 

Just because Mundy forced one fumble doesn't mean he wasn't a liability in coverage.

 

You are correct. Just as it is true that just because Mundy was a backup does not mean he was a liability in coverage. He was not. I mentioned he created a turnover because he had a net positive effect on the game based on where he was positioned.

Watch the game again. Mundy was NEVER POSITIONED AS A DEEP SAFETY ON A SINGLE ONE OF THOSE DEEP PASSES. Never once.

To be a liability in coverage on those deep throws he would need to be in a position to make a difference. He was not.

He never got "beat" a single time in that game.

The "liability" in coverage was Ike Taylor who got toasted repeatedly because Dick LeBeau gave him no help because he didn't think Tebow could take advantage of him.

Ike has been literally quoted saying THAT GAME is when he knew it was time to hang it up.

Due to fear of Tebows legs safeties played the box making it IMPOSSIBLE for them to run with a sprinting receiver once they saw pass.

Tebow completed very little short where Mundy slid into once it was recognized as a pass.

Per advanced stats Ike gave up 201 yards. Mundy? ZERO. Let me repeat that ZERO.

If Ryan Clark played nobody is blaming his coverage when no passes were completed on him. Suggesting Mundy was a reason is 100 percent because he was not the starter.

Look at the tape.