In comparing Howard and Alar ask THIS question-

For me, the issue doesn't solely come down to tanking for a QB though that is a defeatist mentality in it of itself. The issue is the lack of objectivity by people whenever they "scout" said position. More often than not, people tend to look at only the forest through the trees and not the landscape from atop the mountain.


As I see it, a QB needs to have tools that can translate to the NFL. For me, there are five major factors; going through progressions during the play, the release speed at which they can get the football out quickly (also this accounts for processing both pre snap and post snap), accuracy (are they throwing to where the spot should be for the WR or are they just throwing it to the WR), ball security (I account not just for INTs but also PBUs as that metric also is an indicator of decision making) and the ability to adapt to the overall flow of the game are what I use to scout QBs.


Everyone has theirs of course; there isn't a singular "one size fits all" way of doing it. What I do see though is the masses continually uses a bias known as the Fundamental Attribution Error; allowing external noise to derail our own clear judgment. In layman's terms?! People are being followers and not leaders.

 

Both looking at the same player. So they can both be right.

 

This is true, but I guarantee the coaches know who can, and can't play. We hardly see them , hell even the so called insider reporters don't see a 1/8 of what the coaches see , in workouts, practices, film sessions, and drills.

 

Doesn't matter.


One has access to how well Allar is progressing. The other is guesswork at best. So again, two different things.

 

Ben always has something negative to say

 

And nobody should quote Andrew Flipmybologna

 

He's a lot like you when you are talking about him, only he's miles better at what he did for a living than you.

 

One player is just 22 ( Allar ) , the other is 24 and will be 25 in September.

Physically Allar is still developing. Howard has a man body and is maxed out in that department.

As a QB prospect, Allar towers above Howard.

Right now, Howard is ahead due to experience.

 

Agree, although I might put them in a different order than you list.

 

Coaches are not the only people that can judge what they see. Reporters can witness progress/non-progress in OTAs (and upcoming minicamp). It would be no different than if you were there watching. To say otherwise is dismissive with bias.

 

Nope.


Coaches are not just judging on what they see. Coaches have more access to that players development. What he studies, how he is supposed to study it and what else he needs to do before heading onward to the next step of development.


Recall how the Sports Media had a meltdown over the QB Footwork drill Drew Allar was doing?! That, by itself, showcases how limited and how little the outside world knows about these players. Reporters are no different. That drill wasn't supposed to be completed at light speed. It was supposed to allow Drew to properly understand how and why the movements within the pocket must be done in a way that is both organic yet natural. I was one of the few who actually knew about this and posted about it given how Mike McCarthys QB Camp heavily stresses the fundamentals.


So again, coaches do have access to Allars development. Reporters are merely doing guesswork. Two different things.

 

No, he really doesn't, because some of his flaws are things that are difficult to correct. He drops his eyes to look at the pass rush far too often. He makes big mistakes when the pressure is on. Howard doesn't have those issues. He has shown that he can play his best when a big game is on the line. Those are part of a quarterback's potential, too.

The question with Howard is if he can do what he did in college in the pros. With Allar, he has to be better in the pros than he ever was in college.

 

Difference is , even the most insider reporters of a team will only see a 1/8 of what the coaches see .

 

We are doomed.

 

That is fine. They can comment on what they observe. Are you suggesting we can't believe the stories about practices 'being crisper, more disciplined' than the previous years because they don't see all the details? Or the fact that we didn't read similar stories about the last 3rd round QB the Steelers drafted should tell you there are differences here.

 

That is correct.

The coaches know what they have been working on and what to look for to see if what he is being instructed on is taking hold. There are a ton of things going on even when it looks like nothing is happening. There is so much on Allar's plate right now, but it is a process that needs to take place if he is ever going to get where they want him to be.

You are also correct about the footwork drills. Many media people simply don't have the knowledge or common sense to know that the drill is done at a slow pace deliberately to burn that technique into his system. He needs to think about his footwork until he gets to the point where it happens without thinking. That' just how this stuff works.

Then we have the media types that know better, but they still run with it because it gets headlines and clicks.

The only reason Allar needs this much work with these drills is because he was hardly ever under center at Penn State. That's not uncommon in college because many quarterbacks don't do a lot of work from under center because of the spread systems they play in, but with Allar, it's more than that. It is one of the reasons I tried to tell everyone here that the coaching at Penn St leaves a lot to be desired, and that there was much for him to learn mechanically and from a technical standpoint on how to play the position in a more sophisticated offense. He needs to unlearn much of the poor coaching he got and get recalibrated into a better operating system.

The offense he played in was simplistic and did not match his skillset. People here seemed to believe that I was somehow showing bias towards Allar by pointing these things out and making excuses for him, but that wasn't and isn't the case. This is simply where he is in the developmental process because of the path he has been on. Anyone that thinks that doesn't understand how people that evaluate players come to their conclusions. Allar being from Penn State doesn't make me claim he's a top 10 talent in the draft or tell everyone he's a sure thing. I understand the position well enough that I warned everyone that he has a long way to go and that he is far from being a sure thing to be a star quarterback in the NFL.

Many of these same people thought I was slamming Howard when comparing Allar and Howard on their natural gifts as quarterback prospects. The claim was that I was a Penn State fan and was trashing Howard. Nothing could be further from the truth, and now I'm on this message board telling everyone in multiple threads that I think Howard is more prepared to get the first chance to see what he can do. Howard should be kept on the roster, and Mason Rudolph should be released IMO.

That doesn't sound like the view of someone that is biased towards Drew Allar and is anti-Will Howard.

Unfortunately, many people believe what they want to believe.

 

"How can we free your doubtful mind and melt your cold,cold heart!"

 

This.

 

He gets worse with each year; incredible honestly.

 

Allar's biggest problem will be the one that is hardest to fix. He was terrible under pressure. I mean bottom of the barrel bad compared to other QBs in his class.

There is another Steelers 3rd round QB that wilts under pressure and it hasn't gotten much better for him. We'll find out what better coaching might do for the latest one.

 

how in the heck does allar tower above howard? that's BS. howard didn't have to be broken down to grade school level. mentally or physically. you are grasping at straws there joel.

 

Howard was a 6th-round pick who played on an Ohio State team loaded with all-stars. On pure talent, Drew Allar has a much better arm — Howard’s arm is weaker than Rudolph’s. Howard is older and has played way more football, so of course he’s ahead right now. But Ryan Day’s offenses, coaching, and schemes at OSU vs. what Franklin was running at PSU… big difference.

HUGE.

 

that makes absolutely no sense.

 

I think it's more likely that the two groups have different expectations.

I think the coaches have very low expectations for Allar in the present. We kind of see this when we hear Ben being nervous that we spend a long time teaching him how to do 3 step drops. So when they look at him, they think "yep, he's doing pretty good at the basic things we're asking him to do". Also, we only get the public comments from the coaches.

And if they had things they were disappointing with, there is absolutely zero benefit (likely negative returns) on airing that dirty laundry in public.

I think this is the same reason they were talking about Howard like he was a starter and should have been taken much earlier than he was. Same reason that Colbert talked about how "some people" had Mason as a 1st round QB. It costs the team nothing to say nice things in public about players.

I think the journalists (and probably fans) have high expectations for Allar in the present. Those expectations are likely unreasonably high. The most likely scenario for QBs picked in the 3rd round is probably to get washed out of the league in 4-8 years or something. Mason's career is probably on the high end of reasonable expectations for a 3rd round QB.

 

What do you think about Ben being nervous that they spent so much time teaching Allar how to do a 3-step drop?