What are Reasonable Expectations for Mike McCarthy in year one with the Steelers?

I don't know why people was surprised by the Jaguars winning in the playoffs in 2017, they smoked the Steelers earlier that season Fournette ran for 181 yards Ben threw 5 ints including two pick sixes.

 

Some of you must love playing Madden and hitting that reset button.

 

THE VERY NEXT SEASON, Ben throws THREE PICKS versus the Jax

Agree. NB could not be further from being a Ben hater. That is ridiculous. Can we not acknowledge that his being "wrong" has nothing to do with being a hater.

I would suggest that Bens being a HOFer is inconsistent with THIS being a bad game as he had success in all of one of his 3 SB runs without player FAR WORSE at some point in the postseason. If THIS is bad we won "despite" him.

Of course that is not my assesment. But if this is playing horribly, he has been worse during victories.

 

The way they lost was just awful...I did not expect to lose like that.In the regular season,Roethlisberger had likely his worst game of his career(5 interceptions,2 pick 6),the steelers were up 9-7 before the back to back pick 6.Ben and the offense was not perfect in that playoffs game but at least they show up...The defense were a complete no show

And the Steelers started flat on both sides of the ball... The defense gave up 3 TDs in the first 4 drives (it's 2 in 3 drives if you remove the second TD, after the turnover, and they had a short field).Don't forget the Jaguars had won their previous playoffs game against a weak Bills team only by a score of 10-3,so I did not expect a high scoring game like that

I wasn't a fan of Haley's play-calling early in the game... Too conservative, and the fourth down and one call in the first half was just brutal.Right decision down 14-0 to go on fourth down but just a awful playcall on this play against a fast defense

You can't compare it to the game against the Chiefs when the Steelers were 12.5 points underdogs, the biggest of Ben's career, regular season or playoffs.

 

Per the argument the Jags let up, that is ridiculous. This is Ben Roethlisberger who has had a CAREER of comeback victories. By the start of the second half the Jags NEVER had a massive lead worthy of letting up on Ben.

You said they played "prevent". Again it never happened. Heck if it was prevent Ben successfully attacked its STRENGTH because he was beating them deep. But they never were in prevent.

Ben threw THREE PICKS VERSUS THE VERY SAME JAGS TEAM IN THE 2018 season and we won 20-16. The Jags were up 16-0 and we won. Why? The defense allowed less points IN THE ENTIRE GAME than we gave up in the 4th quarter in the playoff, points that were unassisted by turnovers.

Bens career is FULL of those kinds of victories. As you said Ben is a high variance player. But often that variance happens in the same game, most of which are amazing wins. THAT is why he is a HOF player. He has had a career of overcomed slow starts.

But if the defense is a 4 quarter long joke, Ben, Brady, Montana, aint none of them coming back.

 

Look at the plays, including the pick and fumble. Look at how our defense was gashed. Then look at he the tight coverage, starting AT THE LOS, (not prevent), with Ben dropping sweet bombs into the tiniest of windows while avoiding sacks, and tell me the Jags let up when we scored those points. The last TD to Juju, sure game was done. But the rest...Ben was ON FIRE for the most part.

If this is 2004-2012 we win going away with Bens performance.

 

I would suggest that in his career, Ben has never thrown the ball better in the playoff.

 

1) Re: Browns. You're such a Ben hater! [obviously in jest here ]. I think the Browns game was just a (much) worse version of the Jags game. So there's probably some kind of common ground here.

2) I agree that the first pass to Holmes should have given us the go ahead score. Note: remember that the D almost shat the bed at the end of this game. Maybe in the alternate universe where we get the easier TD, we lose (see your comment addressed here in point 4).

Holmes f-d up on the play before "the catch". And I think it's part of the mythology of the drive (which I usually forget to mention) that Ben had the confidence to go back to him right after Holmes might have lost the game for us.

I absolutely don't think Ben "got lucky" with the pass to Holmes. I have never said or implied that this was luck. It was an insane display of skill and the incredible self-confidence that he had. And IMO this pass is the reason he's a 1st ballot HoF player.

That is the entire reason I bring this up consistently. While it was Holmes going on about how great he was (and it was also an amazing catch), I think that play illustrates what made Ben amazing.

And it's not just that he threw the most beautiful ball in SB history. Absolutely perfect trajectory between 3 defenders, yet in the perfect place where only Holmes could catch it...and that he could still be in bounds (credit to Holmes here for getting the toes down!).

It's that I'm sure every single HC, OC, and QB coach in the league would have told him not to throw it. Because even the super-humans who are good long term QBs in the NFL can't do what Ben did on that play. Completing that pass was next to impossible. And the chances of it being picked off was high.

And they all would have been wrong on that play. Because at his best, Ben could do the impossible in a way that I don't think I've seen any other QB do.

The "correct" play is to throw that ball away and try for another "easy" one like the 1st down play should have been.

But Ben had insane self-confidence to go along with his insane ability. IMO someone like Manning or Brady tries a throw like that on 4th down. But not on 2nd.

100% agree with your comment (Madden's) about Ben being superman.

3) Warner was very good. But at his best he was never as good as Ben when he was at his best. One tier below IMO. I'm clearly biased though. If he doesn't throw that pick-6, he's probably a 1st ballot guy instead of 3rd year of eligibility (IIRC).

The only thing I think Warner has Ben beat on is that his story is amazing. There's a reason they made a movie about Warner. His success story is inspiring.

I think Brady and Mahomes are the only QBs of the same era (if Mahomes is the same era) who I think are better than Ben. I'd put Ben in the same tier as Manning (the good one), Rodgers, and Brees. I'd take Ben of this group (biased), but there isn't a wrong answer over who to pick here IMO.

I would take Warner over Eli (who I don't like in this group...but the video he made about pretending to be an NCAA walk-on was funny!).

4)

Exactly!!! Just like we don't know that Ben would have gotten all those yards / points that came when we were down 10 if the score was closer. We do know that every time it was close in 2 games against that team, the O didn't deliver.

And it's exactly what I am saying about Ben (because it's true). Yet somehow, you think I'm a hater.

Re: turnover machines. I can't (or don't know how to) make tables, so I hope you can forgive the formatting here (all stats from PFR).

• Name / Regular season INT% / Postseason INT% / RegSeasons(Fumbles / pass attempt) / Increase reg to playoffs
• Warner / 3.1% / 3.0% / -0.1%
• Ben / 2.5% / 3.6% / +1.1%
• Manning / 1.9% / 2.4% / +0.5%
• Brady / 1.8% / 2.1% / +0.3%
• Brees / 2.3% / 2.1% / -0.2%
• Rodgers / 1.4% / 1.7% / +0.3% (sadly includes two devastating picks as a Steeler)
• Favre / 3.3% / 3.8% / +0.5% <-- While they had different play styles, there is a reason that Favre was the obvious comparison to Ben because they were both "River Boat Gamblers". I agree Warner was in this boat too.
• Eli Manning / 3.0% / 2.3% / -0.7% <-- I don't think Eli should get in on the 1st ballot, but he probably will. I'm happy that he was good at being the Pats in the playoffs.

You can see here that Ben has among the higher INT% in the regular season among these HoF QBs.

He's only better than Favre in the playoffs.

Maybe he makes up in total turnovers because he may have fumbled less because he's so massive and strong?

I think it's pretty normal for QBs with enough games to have a higher INT% in the playoffs vs. regular season because presumably you get better defenses on average in the playoffs vs. reg season. Ben has the biggest increase from regular season to post season.

I'm not sure exactly what this means, but if you think Warner was a turnover machine in some big games...I don't know how you can't think the same about Ben. And I wouldn't call you a hater for that. Because I think it was true that Ben was a "high variance player". This is where the whole "Good Ben / Bad Ben" thing comes from.

And it often wasn't game to game. It was half to half. Usually a slow / not great 1st half. Then a really nice (to amazing) 2nd half.

Aside: I don't think Eli really deserves to be on a list like this, but he'll end up in the Hall so I put him on.

 

Because the QB was Blake Fing Bortles? What did they score the week before vs Buffalo 10 points? They had a very good defense and running game that year but you don’t lose home playoff games to Blake Bortles. Well you do if your MT and Ben turns it over too much. That is the biggest reason for our playoff failure during that stretch. MT being terribly unprepared and out coached and Ben turning it over and being too sloppy.

 

Rodgers back, 11-6

 

Perfect example of what I'm talking about is the Zona SB.
I contend that Ben was BETTER against the Jags my friend.

People completely disregard the role DEFENSE plays, and THAT was the difference in winning and losing BOTH of those games.

People forget Ben had a pick in the Cards SB. Did that pick lead to an easy score? Nope. Why?

ON THE VERY DRIVE FOLLOWING BENS PICK, JAMES HARRISONS PICK SIX HAPPENED!!!!

That is a FOURTEEN POINT DIFFERENCE IN THE EFFECT OF THE SAME BEN TURNOVER because of the defense my friend.

Our OFFENSE was outscored by the Cardinals that day 23-20...we STILL won. Why?

We scored only 20 on a bad Card defense, and defense allowed an elite offense 23 AND spotted the offense 7

Conversely we allowed a team playoff record points to a BAD Jags offense, while Ben had MULTIPLE heroic drives against an elite Jags defense that were rendered moot only because their TRASH offense made our defense took like a JV team.

THE ONLY DIFFERENCE in Bens comeback against the Cards and falling short is that Bens turnover led to Steeler points and thus a lead, so the Cardinals furious comeback only got them to 23 points and a slight lead that we could overcome in a single drive. Against the Jags he had to score over and over again.

Against the pathetic Jags offense we gave up 17 in the fourth.

Doesnt matter how well a QB plays, if you are trading scores you cannot come back

 

Yup and the Bills had 2 turnovers just like us and they gave up 10, not FORTY FIVE.

We gave up 45. COMBINE the Bills AND the Pats playoff games TOGETHER that season and they allowed 30 TOTAL versus the Jags.

 

I dont have any expectations record wise for McCarthy. We dont even have a Qb. Whoever it is, i do expect more passing to setup the run (as opposed to the reverse weve seen lately) and more passes down the middle and using PF on seam routes.

 

hell be 43. Wont last the season.

 

Noll would’ve made Ben a post season terror. He had just as much talent as Terry, maybe a bit more.

 

They already did