Cam Heyward

Cam dry needles too

 

Whatever happened to using wet needles?

Oh, kids these days.

 

Hopefully he can report to camp on time and in shape this year.

 

Cam was the top ranked DL for solo tackles 3rd in assists and over all one of the best DL last year

But don’t let the facts get in your way

 

No this is not correct

 

Cam should be happy --and I think he should retire a Steeler --after this contract. He is a great player --I like him being a steeler--he knocks balls down -he pressures -He is just getting old.But I have no Doubts he is a true Steeler.

 

I hope his family can have a banquet everyday..As long as he plays hard on the field

 

There are some posters here who do not have a clue about football

 

No it's not. DE, and a OLB are two different things people. Yes they both edge rush. Most DEs in the NFL can't play OLB, and most OLBs can't play DE. It's like saying a Safety, and a CB are the same.

 

These guy have all kinds of things done. Nobody playing football, and practicing for 17 weeks is without some type of pain, and or some type of injury.

 

On the Terrible Podcast today, Dave said that this (1) includes a ~ $2MM raise for Cam this year and (2) probably next year is set up as a roster bonus like the last two years.

Some cap savings because of how it's structured.

Always worth remembering that cap space isn't "use it or lose it". Any unused cap space gets moved to the following year.

 

I didn't like his 3rd contract when it happened.

But his 4th contract I did like because we forced a paycut on him.

I thought it was bush-league for him to ask for more money last year, but I like how we handled it by giving him incentives that required (1) individual and team based achievements and (2) were basically not achievable, so it was mostly about him saving face.

Eventually, he'll lose to Father Time. But Cam's game is based way more on brute strength than explosion or speed. And strength doesn't decline as fast as the other two (my understanding is that explosion goes first, speed next, then strength).

Ultimately, I think his cap% keeps going down. And he's shown that he can still play at a very high level despite his "birth certificate".

I get what you mean though. Statistically it's a bad bet. But there's some combination of sentimental value / loyalty and Cam just being "built different" here.

Again...eventually we'll lose this bet if his play craters instead of a gradual decline. But I don't mind betting the streak when the number isn't that big relative to his contribution. The good news is that we haven't let him being on the team stop us from the necessary rebuild of the DL (e.g., Harmon and Black last year). I wouldn't be against taking another DL on day 2 this year if there's someone there we like.

He's currently got the 23rd highest AAV for DTs in the league. And for the last few seasons, it's been set up so there isn't much pain for cutting him as long as it happens around the new league year before his roster bonus comes due.

He was a 1st team AP two seasons ago and 2nd team last year. Was still in the conversation for 1st team too, but competition was pretty stiff.

 

How about those pneumatic guns they used on us in grade school immunizations? Kids these days are missing out.

 

Yes, they are called different things in different schemes... but they aren't drastically different things. There's nuanced differences like 3-4 OLB's dropping into coverage sometimes (not super often, but still) and the 4-3 DE playing with hand in the dirt more often... but they are really similar positions.The reason why they generally don't cross schemes is because a different type of athlete is needed at the position. Generally you can protect a smaller EDGE player in a 3-4 because of the 3 down linemen... but in a 4-2-5 (aka sub package, or nickel) Watt basically plays the exact same position as Myles Garrett, and when Garrett is in wide 9 (a favorite of Jim Schwartz) he's playing the literal same position as Watt.

Your example is wrong. It's nothing like calling a safety a corner... Do you think a 4-3 OLB is the same as a 3-4 OLB? Because they are nothing alike. A 3-4 OLB plays a similar position to a 4-3 DE, while a 4-3 OLB is closer to a 3-4 ILB. Do you think 3-4 DE is the same as 4-3 DE? These are also unalike. They are named the same position, but they aren't the same position. If TJ Watt and Myles Garrett got traded for one another, Watt would play DE in Cleveland and Garrett would play OLB in Pittsburgh. TJ wouldn't be replacing Owusu-Koramoah and Myles Garrett replacing Cam Heyward.... That's just the reality.

DE and OLB are two different things in the same scheme, but they are the same when you cross schemes. In a 3-4 the OLB is the same thing as the 4-3 DE. It's why they created the position "EDGE" and started calling any off ball linebackers just LB's... It was confusing to mix the 3-4 DE's and the 4-3 DE's statistically, just as it was confusing to mix the 3-4 OLB's with the 4-3 OLB's. They just don't play the same position.

 

I'm sorry to disagree, but...
A 3-4 OLB can play a 4-3 OLB easier in most circumstances than a OLB can play DE, or a DE play OLB. Outside of pass rush it's not close to the same, and if you take into account of all a DE does, and doesn't compare to what all a OLB does, and doesn't , so yes it is very like comparing a Safety to a CB. Example JJ Watt had 2 ints in12 years. TJ has 9 in 9 Years. They are asked to do different things. It's not the same.

 

It's fine to disagree. Normally I'd say there's some level of ambiguity to most things, but you're just wrong here. The differences are small and nuanced. 3-4 OLB's and 4-3 OLB's play massively different positions, the skillsets don't translate. Lots of 4-3 DE's in college end up playing 3-4 OLB in the NFL. It's why the Steelers would draft guys like Porter, Woodley and Worilds (etc.) back in the day (all college 4-3 DE's). The skillsets translate well because they are basically the same position.

 

LoL. I was waiting for that. They can do it because they aren't playing the same way they are playing DE in the NFL. It's also the reason why a great DE in college isn't always a great DE in the NFL. Comparing the two isn't the same. Just like all tweeners can't transition to the OLB in the NFL, even though they were great DEs in college, but too small to play DE in the NFL. Believe me on this side of the ball. It's not the same. Saying a Safety is like a CB is the same as saying a DE, and a OLB is the same, and I can even use your own college example....lots of CBs from college play safety in the NFL, but that doesn't make them the same.

 

You're right the "tweeners" don't play DE in college the same as they do in the NFL. They play the same position, just called something different in 3-4 OLB in the NFL. Virtually the same position, but in the 3-4 you can protect a smaller athlete with the extra down DL. Yes, they will drop in coverage a small amount more (10% or less of their snaps) but legitimately 90% of the time it is the same position. The nuanced schematic differences are small. They both are primary edge rushers that hold the edge vs the run. So yeah, 4-3 DE and 3-4 OLB aren't EXACTLY the same, but they are 90% the same. 4-3 DE and 3-4 OLB are literally grouped together in the EDGE category when comparing stats, because it wasn't fair to compare 3-4 DE's to 4-3 DE's because of how different the positions are. 4-3 DE is much more similar to 3-4 OLB, hence why they are grouped together. I didn't do this by the way... it was done by the NFL too. The NFL PFWA has an EDGE category when naming All Pro that encompasses 4-3 DE and 3-4 OLB's... It's also why they encompass Interior Linemen/Defensive Tackles when naming All Pro. It will encompass true 4-3 DT's like Quinnen Williams, but also include 3-4 DE's like Leonard Williams and Cam Heyward.

Going from 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB isn't a position change, its a scheme change. You learn minor things like dropping into zone coverage a small amount of time and play in a stand up position more often. Going from CB to S is a position change. You learn an entirely different responsibility. It's really not even worth arguing on. Your opinion on this is a minority opinion by a massive amount, and quite frankly its an opinion I've never heard iterated or agreed with by anyone I know personally that played college/pro football, nor by anyone in a media role that I take seriously.