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Kenneth Gainwell

Discussion in 'Steelers Talk' started by mac daddyo, Mar 11, 2025 at 9:20 PM.

  1. Bubbahotep

    Bubbahotep Well-Known Member

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    PFR website. Definition is there as well. It's a better metric than YPC.
     
  2. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    https://www.sports-reference.com/blog/2023/09/success-rate-comes-to-pro-football-reference/

    "We've added a brand new stat to PFR. It's Success Rate, one of the coolest and most interesting new advanced stats to enter the football discussion in the last few years."

    There is such a thing as cool statistics? Who knew? lol

    Rushing success rate is subjective, not objective, thus losing the most valuable thing about statistics. That alone tells me that no, it is not better than yards per carry.

    It also ignores the other factors that limited Harris in Pittsburgh, such as the poor play by the offensive lines and quarterbacks. The weak receiving corps was a problem last season, too, making it far to easy to stack the box against the run.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Vox Ferrum

    Vox Ferrum Well-Known Member

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    Stats wise I did not see much difference than Patterson, who should have not been brought in, but that's another story. He is an option guy who brings nothing special, like many he will likely light it up in pre, then show why he is and had been the 3rd option.
     
  4. Bubbahotep

    Bubbahotep Well-Known Member

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    You can quibble over the thresholds but since every player is rated the same way, the rankings are valid. But it does ignore factors such as Harris' lack of vision for holes, running into the backs of blockers and lack of outside speed. But hey, he's a weekly angry runner candidate so he has that going for him.
     
  5. Michael E

    Michael E Well-Known Member

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    I am in agreement with them.

    Harris is just an RB, nothing special AT ALL.

    Pros
    Doesn't fumble
    Durable (so far, but that will change)
    Classy (not a problem child)

    Cons
    Lacks speed for big runs
    Dances too much
    Low YPC, partly OL, partly him and his vision

    Sorry, Steelers did the right thing. That said, I don't think Gainwell is any answer and I do hope he's just RB3 insurance and not some plan to go forward with him and Warren as RB1/RB2. The production would likely mirror Harris/Warren output (since Warren was superior in per touch output by a wide margin).

    Hoping they draft Treyveon or Omarion, but there are a couple of other RBs for round 3 or 4 that could start and be as or more productive than the pedestrian Najee. I was high on Najee when they drafted him, but he got worse each year. His rookie year had me thinking they had a top 5 RB, but he's below average starting RB now. Useful, but not an RB thats going to make your offense click.
     
  6. Born2Steel

    Born2Steel Well-Known Member

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    During his draft cycle, Gainwell was rated the #1 receiving RB in that class. This draft it is 'Rocket Sanders'. Sometimes you just need players that are very good at specific things. Gainwell is very good at moving the chains.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. uncblue012

    uncblue012 Well-Known Member

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    I'd see how much Chubb costs. Warren, Chubb and Gainwell would be really nice.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Born2Steel

    Born2Steel Well-Known Member

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    Would not be shocking if Gainwell beats out Warren in TC. Neither should be the starter, IMO. Still need one in the draft.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. james weyandt

    james weyandt Well-Known Member

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    if he is not good ---then we better get a tough back to power through lines..
     
  10. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    I'm not quibbling over thresholds. I'm pointing out that the measures they are using are subjective.
     
  11. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    It isn't just that Harris is durable. He has been the most durable back in the NFL since he was drafted, the only running back to play in all 68 games over the last four seasons.

    You left out his versatility and power. Harris breaks tackles at a high rate. He is a strong blocker and capable receiver. He has often been on the field for two-minute drills even after Warren took over as the third-down back.

    Harris did not get worse each year, either. His highest average per carry was in his third season. He dropped slightly last season, but much of that was the entire offense collapsing at the end of the season.
     
  12. rcoplien

    rcoplien

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    I think this was a stupid choice. Dobbins would be better!
     
    • Very Optimistic Very Optimistic x 1
  13. Rollers

    Rollers Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah??? Sez who??
     
  14. steelersrule6

    steelersrule6 Well-Known Member

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    They don't need to draft two RBs, they have plenty of other holes to fill.
     
  15. Bubbahotep

    Bubbahotep Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you prefer first down rate... you know, how many carries result in a first down. Oops, Harris was ranked 44th for RBs... that must be subjective too.
     
  16. AskQuestionsLater

    AskQuestionsLater Writing Team

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    At this point, it won't surprise me if the Steelers elect to draft Omarion Hampton with the 21st pick. Wouldn't shock me in the slightest. That said, it would be nothing more than a reach that only Inspector Gadget could surpass.
     
  17. doubleyoi

    doubleyoi

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    Reported as 1-year, $1.79 million deal with $620K guaranteed
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    I prefer objective rather than subjective, though neither of those statistics are all that useful. None of them take into account the shaky offensive line, spotty quarterback play, and lack of a threatening receiving corps that all held Harris back this past season.
     
  19. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Sooner or later you have to put blame on the players, can’t keep making excuses.

    Pickett was a bad QB and Harris was maybe an above average RB. Nothing special.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    It is a combination of the player and the team. Pickett was handled horribly. Harris has produced despite being saddled with a lousy situation. If you refuse to acknowledge context, you aren't going to make an accurate evaluation. Too many fans are just pissed that they were first-round picks and didn't become superstars and that clouds their judgement.

    In the case of Harris, the things that are special about him are boring, specifically his durability and how well he takes care of the ball. I suspect we will end up missing those things this season.
     
  21. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    I’m on record saying the Steelers couldn’t have handled Pickett any worse than they did but I don’t think Pickett would have been successful even if in a perfect situation. He’s not good. Eagles already jettisoned him.

    Those traits aren’t really that rare. We’ll see if Harris looks any different with the Chargers.
     
  22. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    In the NFL Network piece on him signing with the Chargers, they pointed out that Harris is the only running back in the NFL to start all 68 of his team's games over the past four seasons, but sure, that's not rare. lol
     
  23. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Having a durable RB isn’t rare is what I meant. You’re just trying to pump him up.

    He’s basically mid. It’s why the Steelers didn’t pick up a very affordable option and why the Chargers only singed him for 1 year for 5 million. But hey, he’s started every game, guess that’s something. 1st rd pick well spent!
     
  24. Formerscribe

    Formerscribe Well-Known Member

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    No other running back in the NFL started every game the last four seasons. How is that not rare? You're just trying to tear him down. It figures that you would want to ignore that aspect of the game because it is a big question mark for Warren, who battled through injuries all of last season. Speaking of pumping someone up, you seem to want to ignore the legitimate question marks about him.

    The Chargers gave Harris more than $5 million. Even his base is a little more than that and ignoring the incentives is yet another inaccurate way to try to tear the guy down.

    I'm not saying Harris is a star or that spending a first-round pick on him worked out, but that doesn't mean the Steelers were right to move on. They are going to have to put more resources into the position and they their current top option is nowhere close to Harris in durability.
     
  25. Blast Furnace

    Blast Furnace Staff Member Mod Team

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    Don’t know how to make it more clear for you, I was pointing out durable RB’s aren’t a rare commodity, never said anything about starting every game. You want me to acknowledge him starting every game? Ok, *golf clap*

    There are no question marks except the ones you conjured up in your head :lolol:
    You seem to think 250 carries is some herculean feat. Gibbs, Swift, Jones all meet that threshold, same build as Warren.

    Yes, I’m more impressed with the UDFA who has better skills than the 1st rd pick who just runs hard and collects scepters. Oh, he starts every game, too *golf clap*
     

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