Discussion on Todd Haley

Dude BA was Manning's qb coach when he set the record for INT's as a rookie and said he almost "ruined" Peyton and only spent one season with him.

 

Also when I was talking about when has Haley lost his temper I meant when has he lost it in Pittsburgh.

 

Holy crap it's amazing how y'all twist **** around he wasn't referring to Manning. I'll have to see if I can find the article again.

ledit
Too funny you and I have had this exact same discussion once before which made it easy for me to find the article.

I asked Bruce Arians, the Steelers' offensive coordinator, if he has tried to coach Roethlisberger to get the ball out quicker and avoid the sack. Arians said he tried to do that once years ago with a quarterback at Mississippi State and almost ruined the kid's career.

 

Another thing to throw in to the argument about BA doing well in Indy is we need not forget the fact that Luck was sacked like CRAZY and almost led the league in picks too. When he was Manning's qb coach he didn't just lead the league in picks he sat a RECORD for rookie INT's. I really feel like BA is not a good coach for a young guy trying to develop.

 

We should just make it a sticky! LOL. Because you know it's inevitably gonna come back up whether Haley does good or bad and whether BA does good or bad in AZ. He got Carson Palmer and I think that could be a good pick up for them if Palmer has anything left in the tank. But as we all know BA is incapable of actually developing a qb himself so he just hitches his wagon to an established guy and rides off in to the sunset with all the accolades. LOLOLOLOL! I'm just flaming people! Just a little friendly flaming because at this point there is nothing that can be said in this debate that hasn't been said. There is no one changing sides. I really do hope that TTF puts up a sticky thread right before the 2013 season and let us all make a prediction of what we expect and then lock it upon the opening kickoff and not open it again until the last whistle of the season to see how truly accurate we are.

 

Yeah the Raiders took Matt Flynn as their starter. I'm kinda anxious to see how he does because he had a good game against the Pats a few years ago and I honestly think that one game has been his claim to fame. If I'm not mistaken the Seahawks gave him a huge contract but then drafted Russell Wilson who is obviously their franchise guy so Flynn wound up in Oakland because of that.

 

what the he** does this have to do with todd haley ruining the steelers?

sorry just kidding

 

Is it possible for us to agree, or at least partially agree on the following:

1. Bruce Arians is a better-than-average OC. NFL execs must know something: Arians was quickly hired in Indy and chosen as HC in Arizona.
2. Todd Haley is a better-than average OC. Likewise, Haley was given a HC job in KC and quickly found work in Pittsburgh.
3. The Steelers FO may have fired Arians and hired Haley to bring a more disciplined approach to the offense. If so, not sure it worked 100%. Doesn't mean it won't.
4. By all accounts, taking everything into consideration, Big Ben is a lazy QB who gets by on talent rather than film study. THIS is perhaps the offense's biggest problem, not Arians' system or Haley's system.
5. By all accounts, there are also locker room issues, and Tomlin may be too much of a player's coach, leading to lackadaisical approach from the players--out of shape, lack of discipline, poor performance, etc.

I find it interesting that Haley has suddenly become a lightning rod for discussion and the scapegoat for the team's 8-8 record. If one or both of the following don't happen, the 2012 Steelers very well could have been AFC North champs: Ben's shoulder injury, the defense showing up to play the first four weeks of the season.

 

I think 1, 2 and the last un-numbered point are easy to agree on. Actually, maybe 3 as well. If you'd stopped 4 at Ben relying on talent, and not said that this was the biggest problem, then I think that's very agreeable as well.

On 5 - the locker room issues sound to me more like the wonderful world of 24 hour rolling media. That's not to say they aren't happening - but more, I think just about every team in the NFL today has them, and it gets noticed and talked about, then every action is interpeted as a sympton or effect of these "issues", then players respond in turn, then this leads to further "issues"... I don't think doesn't necessarily correspond to a particular coaching style or calibre of player.

 

I tried to qualify that statement with a "perhaps" because it's certainly up in the air. .

 

LOL. Well I guess we just figured this thread had descended in to madness even more so we just brought in more randomness. The thread is titled "discussion on Todd Haley" but what it actually is is "an argument about BA vs Todd Haley". Ahhh the good ole internet...

 

I like your take on it 12 to 88..
And I can agree on pretty much everything you posted.
My only minor quibbles would be the use of the word "lazy", to describe Ben, and that only ONE or TWO things could have changed the fact that we didn`t get into the playoffs.
First off, I get your point about Ben being "lazy", as far as his lack of film study/preparation, and POSSIBLY in the weight room.
However, I just can`t justify, calling a guy "lazy", when I think about what he has to go thru, to endure the rigors of a season at QB, in the NFL... especially, getting hit the way he does, and playing thru the injuries he has, even, the ones he probably shouldn`t have played thru... But that`s a whole different thread, and we`ve had plenty of them about that...
He may not be as "cerebral", about reading a defense, pre-snap, like Peyton can, but VERY few qb`s are... He has to have at least a basic functional understanding of what he is looking at across the ball from him, to have had the success he has had for almost 10 yrs now.
Is it his strongest suit? Certainly not... But he does seem to play pretty well in the no-huddle, presumably, calling his own plays, so, I am hesitant, to say the dude couldn`t spell the word "cat", if you spotted him the "c", and "t"...
HaHaHa... ... just sayin... I`m not gonna presume to know how much he does or doesn`t study film, and call him out, on it...
My only other minor gripe was about the "un-numbered" point...
There were SO MANY things that could have led to us getting to the playoffs last year, that I wouldn`t even try to put my finger on 1 or 2...
How often do you see us fumble the ball EIGHT times, and lose to the Clowns?!?...
Come out with pretty much NO EMOTION, OR FIRE, against the Chargers, specifically, at home, when we KNEW we needed to win, and we were at home?!?(Or less specifically, against all the other teams we had no business losing to, "on paper)..
Have Keisel get flagged for a "celebration" penalty, when he is usually one of the lowest key guys on the team, but has been doin that "celebration", his whole career?!?!...
etc... etc...etc... I can come up with a whole lot of things that could have "tipped the scales" one way or the other, because, believe it or not, as poorly as we played, and as many mistakes as we made throughout the year, we STILL had our destiny in our own hands(as far as at least making the playoffs),until about the 2nd or 3d last game of the year.
SO many things we could have done earlier in the year, to not get to the point where we NEEDED to win against Cincy, and or Dallas, it just makes me sick.
Sorry, I know this doesn`t have to do with the original topic, but I just had to vent...

O.K., now that I have that off my chest...
I am still glad Arians is gone, and I hope that Haley can continue what he started at the beginning of the season, because, to me, it showed a lot of promise.
I will admit, that I was losing faith in him as the year went on, he just seemed to change the things he was doing that were having success, and, I don`t know why.
But I do have confidence in giving him another chance. Hopefully, EVERYONE from Tomlin, on down, learned a few things last year, and we will see a team that plays hungry every week, and takes NOTHING for granted!!!
GO STEELERS!!!

EDIT...
And, Oh yeah, Sorry, I forgot to mention that I think Thigpen is dead on about the media fueling "lockr room controversies", in regards to every team in the league.
I just forgot about that part, when I started "venting"...

 

I like donuts

 

TE...I was curious where your getting your information from concerning Hailey and his relationships with his players in KC. What I'm told from someone who played for him in KC is a lot different than what you are throwing around on here. I'm not trying to pick apart what you are saying, just curious. Hailey had his good and bad relationships with different players, same as any coach on any team but overall the guys in KC liked him. Maybe you know something this player doesn't?

 

I like big butts (and I cannot lie).

 

I've got the same hope but I'm most concerned with the lack of fire in the team for the past good while. I won't blame anyone for that but I feel that it's an important aspect that needs to be brought to gameday.

Getting back to showing up and imposing our will and playing with alot of intensity would be a great thing to see. It might carry the risk of burning people out but it makes the victory all the better.

 

That is exactly the way a lot of these people think.

I thought Haley was supposed to be the guy to reign Ben in? But, Ben would just confine in Tomlin, who would have his back and Haley would just let it happen. So Haley failed and whether it was because of Ben and Tomlin doesn't matter, it's just not going to work and I don't see Ben or Tomlin changing.

Ben is going to be Ben. He is not in the developmental stage anymore at this stage. I would at least like to have some Chemistry and Confidence between the offense and the OC.

 

That is one or two players, one whom misses more games than he plays, and the other who sucks.

The difference is that this is our QB and whole offense and that we are the STEELERS and they are the ratbirds.

Seems we didn't have any problems winning the SB with an Arians type coach.