Discussion on Todd Haley

Why does everyone see Haley's demeanor as such a bad thing? Why should we coddle Ben? He'll never get any better that way. His houdini acts aren't going to work as well when his body starts to break down. At some point if he wants to keep being successful he needs to learn to be a quarterback... Meaning read a defense, and hang in the pocket, and not throw boneheaded interceptions.

Everyone wants to call Haley a jerk, but there's nothing to suggest he did anything the least bit out of line in Pittsburgh.

 

My goodness, TE. A little touchy when it comes to criticism of Ben, arent' we? - lol.

You know as well as I do that Ben can be an obnoxious jerk. He's proven that over time. So can Haley. He's proven that over time. My perception is that since Wittle Ben didn't get his way the way he used to from his BEST FRIEND in the whole wide world, BA, that he decided he would throw himself a little passive-aggressive tantrum, which he did a couple of times last year. Are you saying that Ben's incapable of doing that? With his history, I hope you know better.

I love Ben as a QB, but I probably wouldn't like him very much as a person if I knew him. He had an opportunity to really step up as a leader last year and he FAILED miserably. We have a leadership vacuum on this team that needs to be filled and I hope Ben is able to fill it. Up to this point in his career, he hasn't shown me that he's able. He's a great QB but I'm not sure what kind of leader he is. Up to now when leadership was mentioned in respect to the Steelers, Ben's name never came to the forefront. Why is that?

 

You can spin it that way if you want. However , the point Arians was doing morewith less. Your savior needs every perfect piece in place.

 

Not a lot of spinning required. That's what you said.

And as for Haley being my "savior", I only have one of those and Haley ain't it. I do, however, think that we all need to chill out and give Haley some time. You accuse people like me of being biased toward Haley but I think most of the bias is coming from your side of the aisle. It's pretty obvious to me that Haley won't be able to do anything right as far as you and some others in this discussion are concerned. If Haley doesn't do the job, he needs to go. I'll be the first to say that. You, however, obviously feel that he needs to go (or should have never been hired in the first place) before he even has an opportunity to do the job.

 

Under BA, Ben basically played a lot of sandlot football. Ben made some HUGE plays under BA's watch primarily because the original play call had broken down and Ben had to improvise, scramble and sling it downfield to a receiver that had broken his original route. This is an indication that much of the playcalling was ineffective and was covered by the defense. We all have some great memories of Ben scrambling and making something happen. It was also frustrating as heck to see Ben throw a stupid interception or take an unnecessary sack because the offensive play-calling was ineffective. Blame it on the OL or whatever but much of it had to do with poor playcalling and execution. Consider this, if you're BA and you know that your OL is sub-par and can't hold a block past 2.8 seconds, why not integrate into your gameplanning quick hitting passes to get the defense back on its heels a little bit? The few times we did this (the Pats come to mind) we had success. Ben was hitting Heath and his RBs on quickly developing plays and later in the game intermediate routes were opening up because of it. But most of the time it was like BA's offensive scheme had no rhyme nor reason. The end result, Ben got hit. ALOT!

Enter Todd Haley. We've got a 30+ old Ben now. He's no longer the physical specimen he used to be. He's taken an abundance of sacks and hits over the years because of the wreckless, sandlot style of play that BA allowed. Say what you will about Haley, but he at least seems to have a gameplan most games. He likes to soften up the defense by running the ball and hitting on quick short to intermediate passes. He likes to utilize the tight end. He doesn't like to expose his QB to any more of a physical beating than he needs to. If Ben would compromise a little and realize that Haley's approach has a better possibility of keeping him healthy, he could have a very successful backside of his career. If he continues the 'wing it and fling it' approach, he could have his career come to a premature end. Whatever the case, both Ben and Haley need to realize that they can be successful by working together. I really think we were starting to see some of that last year when the injury bug and fumbleitis hit. Let's see what happens with a full year under their belts.

 

let's be real here it's hard to compare the two. we had 51 carries by a feature back last year that was coming off a knee injury. a disgruntled wr. which haley again is starting without this year. add heath miller possibly not starting the season and a brand new O-line and i'm not so certain BA looks all that great either.

i don't like haley and didn't care much for BA either, but it's nowhere near comparing apples to apples. BA even had hines ward for a few years. he had a feature back that scored 22 rushing TD's BA's last two years.

i know our TE's had 10 TD's last year and our FB had at least 1 TD. most on here wanted to use these positions more and we did. haley will start this season with 19 TD's from last year not on the field. that's tough to overcome for any coach. i'm not seeing it get much better for haley this year.

 

I'll concede that Haley needs to learn how to build relationships. But I think he can do that without giving up his fiery nature. Bill Parcells was a fiery guy. How many times did we see him in a shouting match with players and coaches alike on the sidelines. Todd Haley is not Bill Parcells, I realize that, but the point is you can get in your players' grill and still be respected.

But did the touchy-feely, lovie-dovie relationship that Ben and BA had not bother you just a little bit? I don't know. I almost thought they were too close and I felt like Ben may have tried to exploit that a little bit. My perception was (not saying it was reality, but it was my perception and others' as well) that pretty much whatever Ben wanted, Ben got. They still have that kind of relationship today. According to Ben, he and BA talk every week. The reason Ben was in Georgia to begin with was because BA had talked him into buying a home down there next to his. That's all well and good, but I'm not sure it's the healthiest kind of relationship for a player and a coach to have. Speaking from a leadership perspective, there has to be some space between the coach/manager/leader and his player/employee/follower. There was no daylight whatsoever between BA and Ben and I really believe that the Rooneys recognized that they had grown too close and that Ben's growth as a player might suffer because of it. Just my theory but I think it's plausibe.

 

I think people are really jumping to conclusions on Will Allen's comments. He said that certain guys were worried about not getting the ball in Haley's offense... Reading between the lines he basically said Mike Wallace wasn't happy about Haley's gameplan because he didn't know if he'd get the ball as much as he wanted to. How the hell is that on Haley?

Should Haley bend over backwards to get a selfish Mike Wallace the ball? Should he bend over backwards to let Ben play playground ball because he's Big Ben? No, that's not his job.

 

Sure he should, SBD. Otherwise, Mikey might feel left out and, you know, lose his focus or something.

 

I didn't want Haley to begin with, nothing against him personally but I knew he and Ben would not mesh.

And since when did we care about a player's personal development over winning Super Bowls.
Especially when we all know Ben is going to be Ben. I thought we long accepted taking the good Ben with the bad Ben after he's been to 3 Super Bowls and won 2 of them and should of been MVP in the 2nd one.

I think team chemistry is more important than trying to make Ben into something he isn't and we had great chemistry with Arians. And if not Arians, then at least choose someone who has a chance with Ben. This is Ben's team, he has won multiple SB's, the players believe in him and it was stupid to think Haley could come into that situation and be the bull headed coach he usually is.

At this stage in their career, you wouldn't of brought in a coach for Elway, Marino, and some of the other greats that don't mesh well with their star QB. Why do we think it's ok to treat Ben like that? Did we not learn anything from the way we treated Terry Bradshaw?

I do agree Ben was having a great year at first but only because teams weren't used to it yet and when teams got some game tape they learned to stop it and Haley didn't adjust. That is of course if you think Haley had any control of the offense to begin with. You can't blame OL injuries or Ben hobbling, because that happens every year. If you want to credit Haley with reigning Ben in the first half of the season, you certainly have to blame him for NOT being able to do it the second half. Maybe Haley's system is good but he isn't a good enough coach to keep control of his players or adjust when his scheme isn't working.

To me it seemed the very reason why some wanted Haley was to boss Ben around but that didn't happen at all. It just made for an awkward sidelines and team chemistry. You would see Ben talking to Tomlin about plays while Haley stood in the shadow. So if you thought Haley was going to have free reigns, you're wrong ! Not while Tomlin is coach and him and Ben have that relationship.

 

EVER!! lol

 

It feels like everyone in here is jumping the gun. After one season of alot of different situations popping up there's alot of mud slinging going on.

Feels like a St. Louis fan board.

I understand there's a lot of frustration between you guys over the BA vs. TH thing, but this is way too soon to be calling in these shots.

Bottle it up and save it for when we go 4-12.

 

8-8 or 4-12, whats the difference, we miss playoffs either way. At least one way we would have a great draft pick.

 

The difference is a team on the edge of pushing into another successful playoff run vs. being the browns.

Let me know which one you believe we are.

 

i do remember a couple of weeks ago an article about some player on the defense that said something about woodley too, so it's not all rosey on the defensive lockeroom either it seems.

and TTF, we are up against the cap, we have no sense or dollars.

 

Or maybe a team on the decline destined for 4-12 vs. a 4-12 team that can only get better?

 

That's certainly possible but I don't see it likely.

I feel like we've been in a transitional period these last two or so seasons as we've been replacing the old guard.

I don't think that's settled yet but we're still very capable of being a dangerous team.