Discussion on Todd Haley

Edited: Not a fight I'm willing to have again. after thinking it over not worth it.

 

Interesting.
I`m not looking for a fight.
And, actually, I posted this, before I saw the big Haley vs Arians debate, that started in the "What Will Allen said" thread...
I agree that time of possession is not the "be all, end all" of how to win football games.
Doesn`t mean squat, if you can`t score more than a fg from inside the 20, once you get there, and as Thorn(I think) said, there are a lot of factors that go into it...
Signifigantly... Cowher won a very high percentage of his games, by giving it to the Bus, and just letting him wind out the clock in the 3d and 4th qtrs, after we had a lead.
Everybody knew we were going to do it, but with the line we had, and Jerome, they still couldn`t stop it.
We don`t have that luxury right now, so, I found it promising, that Haley was finding other ways to just move the ball and get 1st downs.
Now that I think about it, yeah, that was probably working more in the early stages of the game, not as much in the 4th qtr.
I hadn`t thought of it that way.
But I still have faith that he will figure it out.
It`s scary, living on the edge, and relying on converting 3rd downs, like we did, at the beginning of last year, but...
IF you can do that, no one can stop you.
We WERE very good at that to begin the season, last year...
I know it ain`t pee-wee football, and it`s not exactly how we were doing it, but I will never forget hearing one of my pee wee coaches tell us...
"They give you 4 downs... if you get 3 yards every down, they can`t stop you"...
It might not be quite that easy in the NFL, but, the principle is the same..
I do still believe that he will find a way to get more production out of the players we have, than Bruce did.
Just my 2 cents.
GO STEELERS!!!

 

i see him as a hot head that does NOT get the most out of his players,,he never has

HINES

 

This is an interesting quote from BA: "I hate the West Coast offense." You can read more here:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nf...olb-monday-morning-quarterback/?sct=uk_t11_a1

I say it's interesting because the West Coast offense has been traditionally a heckuva lot more successful than anything Arians has ever run. Hmmm.

 

I've mentioned before that my wife's cousin played professional ball and will tell you that he played for Haley. This cousin had a very close relationship with Vermeil and, I'm guessing here, that he probably based all his latter relationships against that one. He never had anything bad to say about Haley but did have some division in the locker room. Can that be attributed to Haley? Maybe, maybe not, that seems to be a hard thing to really gauge unless you are in it. I will defend Hailey, in that, he didn't have much to work with as far as a QB in KC. In my opinion he did the best with what he had. I do know that he went long to Bowe as often as he could. As for him being with the Steelers, it is too early to judge no matter what side of the fence you are on. Ben was doing great until the injury (again this is my opinion). I do believe their is a happy medium to be found...question is, can Hailey find it?

 

Great observation. Very true. I haven't started ANY of these threads. I'm just bringing another (albeit, unpoluar) viewpoint to the table. I've taken enough abuse for supporting a successful coach amidst a sea of vitriol. Now, it's my turn to bask in the unfortunate suck job that Haley turned in last season. What's funny is watching the BA-Bashers/Haley lovers (same peeps) scramble around to come up with excuses to justify Haley's poor first season. It had everything to do with fumbles, injuries, a bad o-line, bad apples (Mendy/Wallace) . . . basically, everything BA had to endure as well. Heck, it's even been suggested on this thread the players are too dumb to comprehend Haley's 'genius' playbook. It's become comical to watch. Thanks, gang!

I have taken great pleasure in witnessing some MAJOR pies in the face with the performances of both Bruce Arians (friggin' NFL Coach of the Year!!! AHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!) and Todd Haley (22nd in the NFL in offense, first non-winning season in 6 years -- coming from a 12-4 mark the previous season). I honestly don't blame anyone for trying desperately to save face after BASHING Arians for years and then PIMPING the shlit out of Haley and have to sit there looking clueless as we played a meaningless game against Cleveland to finish out an abysmal season. I was expecting some, "Whoa! Muh bad!! Haley wasn't any better than Arians!" Did we get ANYHING resembling that? Hell no! Instead, a backpedaling race between clowns on unicycles: "Uhh . . . well, Ben was on his way to MVP before . . . uh, but the fumbles . . . uh, Mendenhall is a jerk . . . uh, Dwyer is out of shape . . . uh, Wallace didn't try very hard . . . uh, Tomlin! YEAH! (redirect) Tomlin's game management . . . uh, Tomlin's cliches ruined the season . . . uh . . . "

And, oh, here we go . . . yep, there it is. What I like to call 'The Obama Strategy.' This is where you cover your ass ahead of time by saying it's going to take several years to get where you need to go. That way, if you suck immediately (Haley '12), you can always throw out the, "Well, I told you it would take time." I'd just like to throw mad props out there to all who are using this crutch and informing us all it "takes time" to get acclimated to the new system and whatever otheranyone wants to pile on. Didn't take Arians too long to turn a 2-14 team around, did it? Ohhhh . . . that's right . . . someone informed us he benefited from a "once in a lifetime quarterback." Haha. Awesome. Bruce Arians could have singlehandedly captured Osama Bin Laden and people on this board wouldn't have given him the credit. Now somebody brought up the fact that we won't have Heath for most of the year. Obviously, when our offense sucks . . . AGAIN . . . it's because we didn't have Haley's best weapon. There 'ya go. File the Heath Miller excuse in your back pocket. I look forward to reading it in October.

Another facet I take great delight in: for years I had to read about Arians not using a fullback, too many bubble screens, blahblahblah . . . but when it comes to Haley doing the EXACT same thing . . . chirp*chirp*chirp . . . freakin' crickets. It's fascinating to watch.

That brings up this point: the reasons people have given on here for loving Haley have VERY LITTLE to do with his game preparation, scheme, RESULTS . . . read through these posts and the top three reasons people love Haley are: 1.) He's not Arians 2.) He's a dick to Ben 3.) He was a ballboy here when he was a kid.

The people here who aren't fans of Haley give these top three reasons: 1.) Our offense regressed 2.) He's a dick to Ben (at least we can all agree Todd Haley is a dick) 3.) Our entire offense seems to dislike him.

The people trying to save face for Haley are offering little more than rhetoric and hope (another presidential strategy). When they offer statistics, they are weird, random numbers (QBR, Arians' stats inclusive of his days in Cleveland, TOP -- but only in certain situations, etc) and, when they don't play in their favor, they question the context of the stats: "Well, yeah, TOP can mean a lot of different things . . . I mean, were they behind in every single game that year, was Dwyer out of shape, it WAS an unusually balmy Fall this year . . . "

Here are some concrete numbers for you:

Yards per game in 2012 was 333ypg. That was down 39ypg from 2011's 372ypg. That was 21st best in the league (down from 12th best). I'll use visuals if it helps: 333 < 372.
Points per game was 21ppg. Up 0.7ppg from the previous season. BA teams had more than 21ppg in every other BA season.
3rd down percentage was 42%. Down from 46% the year before. I thought everyone was raving about our 3rd down percentage last season? Oh, riiiight . . . BEFOOOORE the injury. Gotcha. That was some injury. Good thing Ben was never hurt under BA's watch . . . (sarcasm)
Time of possession was 32:11. Down 1:22 from the previous season's 32:33 mark. Only one BA team in 5 years every had a lower TOP than Haley's 2012 team. But somebody else posted "Good riddance to BA ball, and welcome back to clock controlling, consistent marches down the field, STEELER FOOTBALL!!!" I guess that's what . . . coming soon? As long as we vote Haley to a second term, right? That's when the clock controlling, consistent marches are coming? Okay, I'll hold my breath. HUMPH!!

And what's with the 'Ben was God' before he hurt his ribs excuse? You know what Ben's worst statistical game of the year was? The season opener at Denver!! How were his ribs then?! Why were people talking about how great Ben was performing early in the season? He was averaging over 37 attempts per game!! Do you know what our record was when Ben attempted over 40 passes a game? 0-5!! Welcome back to ball control, running . . . plllllllllllllp!!!!! Haley did the exact OPPOSITE of what Art II brought him in here to do! We were supposed to, under Haley's guidance, get back to a ball control, running game. Instead, we SET A FRANCHISE RECORD for 574 pass attempts!! HAHAHA!! Hope you enjoyed your time in Ireland, Dan. Welcome back!!!!

I don't like Todd Haley because he is a douchebag. This season was, unfortunately, all too predictable. As I've mentioned before, I wasn't alone in saying he was going to break rapport with his players. EVERYONE knew it! Pro Football Talk, Jay Glazer, Adam Schefter . . . EVERYONE!! We were getting, "Did the two douchebags talk to each other yet?" stories every single day. Why? Because everyone knew Haley was a dick. They knew Ben was stubborn and it was like mixing two potent chemicals together. At that point it was just biology . . . science . . . KABOOM!! Then, suh-priiiise, suh-priiiiiiise . . . rumors about a fractured locker room?! No way!! Whodathunkit? EVERYONE!! The dude is a problem. Everywhere he's been = problems. And people thought it would be different here? That a 2-time Super Bowl champion, primadona, quarterback was going to click his heels, stand up straight, and throw out a, "Sir! Yes, SIR!!" That's 50 Shades of Dumb to think that Haley was going to get Ben in line. It's 51 Shades of Dumb to think Ben 'needed' it. Ben extended my lifespan by about twelve years. I sat through over a quarter-century having Cowher's and Noll's (final decade's worth of) teams rip it apart. I like Ben being Ben. I want an OC to come in and say, "You, sir, are THE MAN!! How can we help you get what you need to be successful?" Instead, most on here want the opposite. They want Ben and Haley to hate each other. Congrats. You got your wish. How's it working out for 'ya?

I'm done. I could keep going but I'm sure EVERYONE is going to think it was directed personally at them, get defensive, call me a DICK and blahblahblah.

At least I broke this long rant down into paragraphs for you. You're welcome.

 

Doesnt matter, Tomlin doesnt have the balls to do anything about it, and if he did he doesnt have the power any way,

 

That's awesome.

We threw the ball A FRANCHISE RECORD 574 times last year.

 

Were you picked on a lot as a kid?

 

I question the hire in the first place, and I did not care for BA.I was glad to see him gone.
But when you bring in a no nonsense coach, to try to change maybe the most arrogant
and egotistical player in franchise history. you may have some problems. IT IS HARD TO CHANGE A LEOPARDS SPOTS.
I agree with most posters that our OL has been horrible for some time now, and if you look at it, the Steelers have
thrown alot of money at the OL with really no results. They are BAD at evaluating talent in this area and at the CB position.
With that being said, we will have to give Todd Haley a chance to try to get back to real Steeler football. But his hands will be tied
unless they provide him with more weapons for Ben to use.We must have another WR and RB FROM THIS DRAFT/FA that will be
able to PLAY and be productive thru out the season not just a game here or a game there. Also how long will Heath Miller be out?
I am thinking atleast a half a season, who makes up for that talented player? So will it be easy to evaluate Todd Haley when he needs so many more weapons
to compete? And that is ASSUMING that they get production from this offensive line. I have my doubts on a couple of players.
They did not do enough house cleaning, strength and conditioning coach should have been gone and the RB coach should have been gone also.

 

his eye balls seem HUGE

 

Because of Haley? I haven't seen anything like that. Can you show me a link if you have?

 

todd haley will be the OC in 2013. BA won't. it's that simple, like it or not.

 

No one said we ran all the time. The "dink and dunk" is basically what the Pats use. It's just using the pass as the run. Short quick passes that just chip away at yardage and the clock. I just honestly want to get you on record as saying that Haley is the MAIN reason that we went 8-8. In spite of the fact that our Special Teams led the league in penalties. In spite of the fact that our Defense couldn't get off the field quickly. Haley called some stupid games to be certain. But I've yet to hear you say for sure that it was all Haley. Was it all Haley or not? Does the D not bare ANY blame for ANY loss? Do the players not bare responsibility for mistakes? In your opinion what happens in the Dallas game if AB doesn't fumble on Special Teams? What happens in the Raiders game if AB doesn't fumble?

 

There is no way that anyone can evaluate Todd Haley after just one season to the point that they think he will not be successful with the Steelers and especially Ben Roethlisberger. Up until Ben got injured he was mentioned by fans and NFL commentators alike for league MVP. Suddenly though he was not worthy of the hire in the first place according to many on here. I just don't get that. And then to lump BA back into the mix because he was successful for one season as an interim head coach with the overall number 1 pick in the draft is just over reaching. BA will more than likely not be nearly as successful this year with the Cardinals talent level.

Some people on here wanted Cam Cameron for OC and he wwas fired midway thru a season that had his team winning the SB.

 

To me this is bs. Haley inherited a winning team and took us to 8-8. Of course you'll point to injuries, but ba had just as many injuries if not more and won(including losing Ben for weeks). The whole it takes a while to implement an offense is bs as well. Numerous teams shuffle oc every year and have no problems, but suddenly boy wonder needs a crutch. Who gives a rats ass if Arians had the #1 draft pick he's still a rookie. Haley had a two time Super Bowl winning qb and **** the bed turning him into Matt cassel in the process. One other thing. Who gives a crap about talk of a MVP season? I don't even care bout the award. It's for individual accomishments. I care about wins and particularly Super Bowl wins. Of course when they draft cooper this year and we finally have an o-line if we do win you yahoos will crown Haley as some god and slobber all over him even more.

 

Haley did not take a team to 8-8. Mike Tomlin did.

 

Exactly. And for all those BA fans that want to try and bash Haley after 1 season and try to throw it in every ones face you may as well direct all that attention you're trying to achieve at the Rooneys since they're the ones who released him. It doesn't matter what the peeps on here say, the Rooneys no longer wanted him here and he's gone. Get over yourselves.

 

the defense lost the games in the beginning than the ben injurie and ben post injurie lost the other ones

 

Yeah but imo there's issues in that locker room last season with or without Haley being there. And I think you'd agree with that statement. In fact you probably already have somewhere in here, lol

 

LOL! Did you really just do that? You basically just said that, 'oh by the way, just in case we do start winning in 2013 I want everybody to know right now that Todd Haley will have had absolutely NOTHING to do with it!'.

Wow, just wow. That tells me a WHOLE lot right there.

 

Sounds like a problem with the players being selfish to me, not an issue with Haley.

 

Do you think Ben's passive-aggressive, middle school girl behavior could have had something to do with it?