Discussion on Todd Haley

I saw the April Fools "Haley Fired" post, and I got to thinking there's been a lot of anti-Haley posting. I'm curious to hear what the consensus is on him, and if you don't like him... why? It seems strange to me so many people want him gone already. I know a lot were uneasy at first because of his reputation as a hot head (which personally I kind of like, since BA seemed afraid to tell Ben no to anything).


I like Haley, and here's why...

* I think Ben has an ego. Not big news. Most NFL players do... but I think Ben thought that he knew what he was doing and didn't think there was holes in his game. He just shrugged off the stuff about holding onto the ball too long as "I only play one way." which I think is a really stupid and stubborn way to look at things. A coach can't always be your friend, like Bruce was. Haley isn't afraid to tell Ben what he's thinking. It challenges him to get better as a player.

* Prior to Ben's injury, I thought our offense was really starting to look good. Dink-and-dunk seems to be a dirty word for some reason, but it was keeping Ben clean. Even though we finished pretty low on offense statistically, I liked what I saw from a purely "eyeball test" sort of way. Haley saw that our offensive line wasn't very good, so he looked for ways to cover up the weakness, and it was working. We gave up 37 sacks, which was our lowest total since 2009 (also 37).

* People were talking about Ben as an MVP prior to his injury! Jonathan Dwyer and Isaac Redman both put up some very good games last season. We struggled with injuries along the offensive line about the same time Ben started hobbling, and our running game suffered as well (especially with Mike Adams out of the lineup).



Prior to his injury I thought Ben was having the best season of his career, and it was because Haley reigned him in a little bit and had him be more careful with the ball... The wheels came off a little towards the end of the year... but I like what I've seen so far, and I think we have to give Todd another year to put his stamp on this roster.

But I'm curious to hear the reasoning for those that want him gone.

 

i like haley we just need people to follow his playbook that is little more big than some others , hope we have players clever enough

 

i dont what to get rid fo him "already" ... i never wanted him in the first place

HINES

 

I don't understand this statement at all.


My main problem with Haley is that what we've seen from him in KC and with the Steelers is too stubborn. Last year he didn't play to the strengths of the players on the team. For example running Redman East-West or asking diminutive receivers to catch a 1-2 yard pass and then break tackles. When that doesn't work Ben has to come in and bail him out on 3rd and long. If teams are stacking the box to take that away then make an adjustment instead Haley just kept going with the same thing over and over. If you go back and read KC boards when Haley was there a major complaint was his refusal to open up the passing game all. IF it was 3rd and long here comes a screen or draw and that's exactly what we saw last year. The only reason he's on anyone's radar is because of the talents of Kurt Warner. Haley is taking our franchise qb and turning him into Matt Cassel. People blasted Arians for supposedly doing it, but never actually noticed that he didn't. Against the pats they played to stop the deeper patterns and Arians ate them alive underneath. A couple weeks prior the Jaquars? stacked the box and Arians went with deeper routes and it was effective.


To go a little farther on Haley's stubborn nature look at the KC game this year. It was obvious that the KC defense knew exactly what coming and Haley never changed a thing. He just kept playing into their hands. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result, but that's exactly what he did repeatedly.

One other thing we all know Ben and Arians are good friends. However, to say that Arians never reigned him in or tried to is bs. None of us know what goes on in the locker room, team meetings etc and making the claims about how Arians handled Ben without any inside knowledge is stupid. Anyway it's time to get to the ballpark for opeing day.

 

Every team in the league put up 400 yards passing on New England, Lebeau won that game by playing bump and run on their receivers and using Allen to shut down Gronk... Don't try to paint Bruce as some genius. He went deep all game every game and didn't care that Ben got hit 25 times a game.

 

Why?

 

I get what you're saying about letting Ben be Ben. For the most part he always will be, and I'm not saying to "neuter" him as you put it. I'm just saying set him up for some success. If you know he has a tendency to hold onto the ball, call a play that gives him more time... Not slow developing plays.

I think the ego and attitude problems people point to on Haley are sort of silly at this point. He went a whole season without any issues. I think you have to give the guy the benefit of the doubt until he proves otherwise. I also don't see the issue. Tom Brady's gotten into shouting matches with teammates and coaches, but they're adults and they work it out (who here hasn't had beef with a spouse, sibling, teammate, coworker) and move on.

 

Your statement about our offense under Arians is based on nothing but message board myth and lore. Go to TenYardTorrents download a few games and watch what is happening on the field. WHat the defense is doing etc because your claim is flat out wrong. Or better yet pay for the all22 package from NFL.com.

 

DING DING DING

 

Any chance the issues in the locker room were more a function of Mendenhall and Wallace?

 

I'm with you SBD. I'm a huge Haley fan. As a matter of fact, I'm the self appointed President of the I love Todd Haley fan club. My boy Tomlin_Era was my VP for a while but decided to step down in order to spend "more time with his family". LOL. My thing about Haley is that he was given the task of "protect Ben from Ben" and I think he did that. Everyone that is saying he didn't play to the wr's strength are missing the point that in order to keep Ben upright he couldn't go bombs away to the one trick pony every down like BA did. Also WHY would he go bombs away to Wallace since he was "losing focus" even though reality showed that Wallace was the most targeted receiver on the team. It just so happened that he also led us in drops but apparently Haley should have given him MORE looks. Bill Belichik called Haley a genius and I don't think Bill is one to just casually hand out compliments like that. Haley will be fine. The team will be fine. Steelers football is to control the clock right? Well Haley did that until his main weapon went down hurt. I like to control the clock and have long methodical drives. So that's another reason I like him. I DO wish he'd a get a RB that we can depend on. Dwyer let us down big time last year with his conditioning but that's not Haley's fault. Redman can't stay healthy. That's not Haley's fault. Mendy is an idiot. That's not Haley's fault. Wallace can't catch. That's not Haley's fault. AB can't hold the football. That's not Haley's fault. So I like Haley for all the reasons you said and plus the fact that he has Belichik's and the Rooney's endorsement and plus the fact that he puts together gameplans that keep Ben on his feet and control the clock. I think that also benefits the D because we have so many guys on that side of the ball that can't seem to stay healthy too. So the less they are on the field I think the better our chances are to go deeper in the post season if those guys stay healthy.

 

To no one's surprise, I like Haley. I was the first one on this board to state that it would be LOGICAL for the Steelers to consider Haley for their OC position. Well, Haley was hired and I ended up looking pretty smart and have thus been inextricably linked to Todd Haley on this message board. I think when it's all said and done that Haley will be such a HUGE upgrade over BA we'll look back on these debates and wonder why we even mentioned BA in the same sentence with TH. I may be wrong, though.

To follow are some of the reasons that I believe Todd Haley s the right man for the OC job in Pittsburgh:
1). I really believe that Ben had grown a little soft and undisciplined under BA. He was essentially allowed to do what he wanted on offense seemingly without any repercussions. Ben pulled a lot of games out of his rear end with sheer physical determination without any creative input from BA. As Ben grows older and less mobile, he needs discipline and I believe Haley can provide that.
2). There's a passage of scripture that talks about iron sharpening iron. Creative tension is a good thing. I got tired of watching Ben and BA discuss dinner plans on the sidelines after Ben had thrown a stupid pick 6 or had held onto the ball too long taking a sack and blowing a scoring opportunity. I was never comfortable with the fact that Ben basically considered BA his best friend. I just didn't think that was healthy and I thought Ben may have exploited that.
3). Say what you want about Haley, but he has had some success in the NFL. He was the OC who just about beat the Steelers in Super Bowl 43. I know, I know, you Haley haters don't believe Haley really had anything to do with that. I also don't believe Haley did such a bad job in KC. The guy got the Chiefs to the playoffs with Matt Cassell as his QB and was actually pretty competitive in a few games with TYLER PALKO as his QB his last season there when the team was decimated by injury. You Haley haters need to give the guy some credit.
4). I think if Ben will meet Haley half way he'll have his career prolonged. It was working masterfully last year before the injury. We were near the top of the NFL in TOP and sacks were way down. We finally appeared to actually have a gameplan going in to games and were even making halftime adjustments on offense. What a novel concept that BA never seemed to grasp. Then the injury bug hit, Ben reverted to his sandlot ways and the season never got back on track the last several games. But I think we saw enough to give us all some hope that this arrangement can work.
5). Finally, I like the fact that Haley bleeds Black & Gold. I like the fact that he doesn't get along with the Patsie wonder kid, Joshy McDaniels and the Cheatriots personnel wizard who took his show to KC, Scott Pioli. I like the fact he's got some family history going back to the 70s Steelers. I like he fact that he thumbed his nose at the Cards head coaching job to remain the OC in Pittsburgh because of his love for the organization. From my perspective, he's an easy guy to root for. He's a kindred spirit. HE'S A PITTSBURGH STEELER!

Having said all that, he's got to improve on 2012. We've got to make strides in 2013 and the offense has got to improve. We've got to get back to the postseason and give ourselves a shot to win our 7th Lombardi trophy. And you know what? Nobody knows that better than Todd Haley and I guarantee you nobody's working more diligently in the offseason to make sure that happens!

Can all you Haley haters just chill out and give the guy a chance? I think you'll be glad you did.

 

The offense was doing good the first half of the season not as many big plays but they were effective on 3rd downs. Ben was off to his best start before he got injured and Heath Miller was having a career year. I don't think you can judge Haley off of one year, the running game disappeared the second half of the season. Ben was terrible when he came back from his injury and the team was 1-3 the end of the season.

 

I didn't have a problem with Bruce Arians. I thought he did a great job while he was in Pittsburgh. I just think his offense was really hamstrung by a woeful and too often injured O line. And despite that, his O went to 2 SBs and won one.

However, if its one thing that I strive to be, its consistent. So Im not going to pile on Todd Haley and blame him personally for the Steelers offenses problems in 2012. Looking at it objectively, he was sabotaged by the same problems as Arians...too many injuries along the line. If you look back before the injures started to mount, the Steelers were showing some good signs on offense. I can't wait for next year now that the head-cases (#17 and #34) are gone, the O line has a chance to grow and heal, Ben has a chance heal, and the TH playbook has time to sink in. I think the O can be really productive and will be much improved over last year.

As far as the vitriol flying around at Haley, I think its funny. I think what you have are the people who defended Arians having their A-ha moments and busting the balls of the BA haters. And to a large degree, its deserved. BA took an inordinate amount of heat for the offenses problems and when those of us who liked Arians tried to defend him against largely unwarranted criticism, were bashed and clubbed over the head, and accused of making excuses. Now the shoe is on the other foot, and a lot of those who did the bashing are the ones accused of making excuses when the Steelers offensive short comings are pointed out and blamed on Haley. The hunted have become the hunters.

 

I think it's way too early to make a call on Haley. When the team was "relatively" healthy, the offense played pretty well. So that's a positive. But then they stunk up the joint down the stretch and I'm not sure why. I do think Haley (and Tomlin, too) lost this team after the emotional Baltimore win. And, so, that's a negative. I think Haley's a very good coach. I have come to understand that Arians may be, as well.

 

Indeed, they were.

 

O.K., Yinz can bash me all you want.
I am STILL glad B.A. is gone, and I am still glad we got Haley to replace him.
I am not a huge fan of Haley`s, but what he was doing certainly seemed to be working for the first part of the season.
I can only assume it would have gotten better without the injuries.
I do wonder how he will replace the reliance on Heath at the beginning of this coming season, when Heath is unavailable. (Hopefully it`s just the first part of the year...)...
I will give Bruce the credit he is due. I never thought he would succeed as well as he did in Indy. Hat`s off to him.
I still am glad he`s not with us.
The "ball control" thing, was working wonders for our time of possession. And it seemed like we were getting over the problems with scoring from the redzone.
I do find it ironic, that Ben took a major injury on his watch, but what can ya do? It`s part of the game. I still think Ben has a better chance of survivng the season, and prolonging his career, playing in a style that he may not like as much.
I also don`t believe that trying to "handcuff" him, or teach him to play smarter, will take away his God-given talent to play "sandlot football", when there is no other choice.
It`s just a matter of only doing it, when there really is no other choice.
Yes, I did have a problem with a few things, especially using Rainey (or Baron Batch)like he was the Bus, up the middle, but that only seemed to happen when Tomlin got hacked off at other runningbacks for fumbling the ball, or our real workhorses were injured/benched, and we still had to show the threat of running up the gut, to keep an opposing defense honest.
Yes, he had a few other bone-headed playcalls throughout the course of the season, that I don`t specifically remember right now, but which I know caused me to scratch my head at the time.(usually on third down, if I remember correctly)
But still, nowhere NEAR as often as Bruce`s!
Good riddance to BA ball, and welcome back to clock controlling, consistent marches down the field, STEELER FOOTBALL!!!

 

Are we talking overall TOP or are we talking individual drives? Because if we lump it in as Total TOP then I could see where they're similar. The thing I always tried to point out about TOP during Arians tenure because it was a very hot topic was that the team had some fast scoring drives in the first getting up by a score or more then played some school yard ball that resulted in some three and outs, settled down in the late stages of the second and into the third and what was the case was that when they needed to grind it out in the fourth and chew up the clock they weren't as able to as they were in years past. Sometimes they got behind and had to pass and look for that big play or they got stopped for third and long and really long and Ben tried to force into the receiver and it didn't work. TOP is a confusing stat because you can have the ball for 35 minutes or more but if all that time comes in the middle of games and doesn't result in points then it is of no use. Same thing goes for Haley that went for BA, grinding out TOP is meaningless if you don't finish drives. What is the comparison for average number of possessions per game between the two?

 

Yeah, the TOP thing is a myth.

TH's 2012 TOP was 4th best of the last 6 years.