The role of the DE in a 3-4 defense

After reading through all three pages of responses for Jack attacks Boom or Bust thread I felt compelled to start a thread to clear up something that just bugs the heck out of me. Yes, the defensive end position in a 3-4 is an inglorious position in the NFL. Yes in the base 3-4 the role of the De is to tie up the offensive line and free up the linebackers to flow to the ball and make the play. They help set the edge on runs to the outside and play a key component stuffing the run by cloggin up running lanes and forcing double teams. All these things that were mentioned are true but the one that bothers me is the assumption that they have no responsibility in the pass rush or rather that they are not as important as the LB's. That is just wrong when the team switches to a nickel package or the dime and rushes only four be they two LB's and two DE or one DE and three LB's or even rushing out of a base 3-4 formation if only four guys blitz up field their responsibility shifts from being an irrelevant 3-4 DE to being part of the pass rush in which they are supposed to put pressure on the QB. If I read one more post in which someone defends Hood's play by saying that it isn't his job to pressure the QB in a 3-4 I think I will go postal.

Now lest this become a "oh he is just singling out Ziggy" rant I am not talking just about him, although if you are a highly touted pass rusher in camp or teammates, coaches, media and fans are singing your praises as a pass rusher than when you are given the chance to shine you should shine and not just bull rush a guy back to the QB only to have the QB side step your pressure and complete the throw. You should in that instance draw double and triple teams for fear you will destroy the pocket. This goes for Heyward, McClendon, Hampton, and yes even Da mighty Beard. If you are part of a four or even five man rush and that is all the pressure you are sending than it is your job to pressure the QB not free up the LB's to make a play. If you are given a chance to shine you must shine and not just be average. This attitude that that isn't what an DE is for in a 3-4 scheme is just annoying. Yes there is little glory but still when you are given that chance for glory take it with both hands.

Ok rant done and I feel a little better, please proceed with the public flogging.

 

I agree with you about rushing the qb. When I saw the title of the thread I thought "get to the qb". That's how I envision Lawrence Taylor when I think of him. That's how I envision James Harrison when I think about him. I just think of them as coming off the snap and just bum rushing as hard and fast as they can to get to the qb. Maybe that's not their ACTUAL role but I think of James Harrison as a guy that's gonna give more qbs a headache than guards really.

 

for me the problem is finding a 3-4 de that can do both. a de in our system has to be big and strong enough to set the edge. u said that and i agree. problem is most guys big and strong enough to do that are not great pass rushers. they lack speed to blow by tackles. heyward i thought might be an exception and still may be. if we had a dwight freeney type de i think it would be alot easier to run the ball of us. i guess its kinda like pick your posion. our system works if the olbs can beat their blockers. i think harrison is just wore out and woodley either wasnt healthy or was happy to get paid

 

Draft Margus Hunt

 

Nothing to add to this except...

 

I think he could be one of the special ones. Only problem is i dont know if we take him at 17 and no way he falls to us in second. I would lime to see him in black and gold

 

Oh I thought Taylor played DE/LB. Me and this guy got in an argument once about whether he did or didn't. I was saying he was a LB and the other guy was saying he was a DE. He was older than me so I figured he had a greater frame of reference because I'm BARELY old enough to remember LT playing. As far as Keisel he got IN the backfield some this year but just couldn't close the deal. I feel like there were several times this year where I was screaming for him to hurry. I think he was hurrying and that's the problem.

 

because crack was leagal in NY when he played.

 

Thank you for saying this. I couldn't agree more. Hood was the WORST pass rushing DE this past season and some people are ok with this because of the "system".

 

What kind of pass rush are looking for from a 3-4 DE though? A. Smith never had a lot of sacks except for one year.

A. Smith's best contribution was that he could push the pocket back into the QB, even when he was double teamed. That is what worries me about Hood's play. He kind of just holds his ground or barely holds his ground. He never seems to the push on the pocket.

 

hood is worst than nick eason

 

According to the article I linked in another thread, Hood has 3 sacks and 3 QB hurries while Heyward had 1.5 sacks and 5 QB hurries this past season. However Hood played 833 total snaps while Heyward only played 267. I haven't been able to confirm these stats though. He will never be A. Smith but it seems that the first step in this area for him is not to have the WORST pass rush production in the league at his position.

 

I see the point that people are making, but let me add a contrary point. The Steelers were one of the teams that didn't have problems with RGIII, I'm guessing due to their disciplined pass rush. During the playoffs, Clay Matthews could pressure the QB, but Minnesota often ran at his spot because he was out of position (while making a pass-rush move). Other teams may have more impressive sack totals from their front 3 or 4, but that doesn't help when they let someone like Kaepernick run wild on them.

 

smith had 17.5 in his first 4 years. ziggy 8.5. smith also forced fumbles. ziggy has none. i'm willing to see ziggy one more year with his revamped body. he had his best year last year. i like woods too.

 

I will admit I was one of those bashing Ziggy but I would gladly eat crow with a smile on my face if he became a productive DE. My biggest problem with his play is the run stopping game, if you remember Tim Tebow completing 10 passes for 316 yards against us in the playoffs 2 years ago, it was his play that that happened. I know he wasn't responsible for coverage but the team had to bring everyone in the box in oder to keep the run game contained, especially to Ziggy's side because he can't set the dege or eat the block to set the LBer free. Look how our run defense has been since he became the starter, before we didn't have a team rush for over 100 yards and now we have indivduals that can do it, my point is that Ziggy isn't getting pressure on the QB, well that wouldn't be so bad if he was setting the edge allowing the LBer to rush the QB or doing a good job of pushing the pocket or stuffing the run but all it looks like he is doing is staying with the guy he is going against. I hope he gets better or gets gone...In a hurry.

 

I totally agree. I wish they look for 3-4 defensive ends with some pass rush ability. I've been screaming that for years now.

Bruce Smith was the best 3-4 passing rushing DE in the NFL.

If they keep on insisting on these type of defensive ends, bring in someone to teach them passing rushing moves.

 

the problem is the triangle up front , nt and the two olb , from there you put pressure , look at the rats now ngata suggs dumervil, and us mclendon wodley worilds

 

Well it was either crack or the underage prostitutes but SOMETHING had to make him so crazy.

 

TARHEELS BABY!
ask Len Bias how good the crack was

 

3-4 DL men are basically tackles. A majority of 3-4 DLmen will never be great pass rushers. The nature of the 3-4 DL position is not designed for the DL men to make a lot of plays. The defense is designed for the LB's to make a majority of the plays.

I don't know why people continually go through the same issues every year regarding the Steelers DLine? They are never going to have 3 great consistent pass rushers on the Dline as long as they run the 3-4 defense. It's always been that way and it will always be that way.

 

I

Ok, so how do you know exactly what Dick LeBeau is asking his Ends to do in these situations?
While you may be right in theory you still don't know Ziggy Hoods assignment on each particular play. Maybe they just flat out never ask him to rush the QB.
The point being, is that the Steelers obviously seem ok with Ziggys work and they're the ones who know how he is performing relative to what he is asked to do.