Modern Coaching vs. Old School Coaching

Modern NFL Coaching Staff vs Old School Coaching Staff –


My belief in the advantages of Modern NFL Coaching Staffs:

1. More Offensive centric

2. More coaches that help cultivate and develop the talent. Does SF draft better than everyone or do they just have the coaching and the system to better develop the talent they draft?

3. More eyes, more brains, more experience results in covering all the details better on game day such as not only on field coaching based on intuition and the ebbs and flow of the game but using analytics, and personnel to assist with challenges, etc. instead of it all falling on one or two people or just being ignored.


Old School Coaching – Steelers (19 Total Coaches)

https://www.steelers.com/team/coaches-roster/


1 HC

1 OC

1 DC

1 Special Teams Coach

15 Assistant or Position Coaches

4 Strength and Conditioning

10 of the coaches are on the offensive side

8 of the coaches are on the defensive side (not including Tomlin)


Head Coach–


Offensive Coordinator –

QB Coach –

WR Coach –

RB Coach –

Offensive Line Coach –

Ass. Off. Line Coach –

Tight Ends Coach –

Senior Offensive Assistant –

Offensive Assistant – 2


Defensive Coordinator –

Defensive Line Coach –

Inside Linebackers Coach –

Secondary Coach

Asst. Secondary Coach

Outside Linebackers Coach –

Defensive quality Control Coach –

Special Teams Coordinator –

Strength and Conditioning - 4

Modern Day Coaching – SF 49 er’s (29 Total Coaches)

https://www.49ers.com/team/coaches-roster/

1 HC (also OC)

1 DC

1 Special Teams Coordinator

3 Positions dedicated to supporting the HC directly

13 Coaches on offensive side

9 Coaches on Defensive side


Head Coach / Offensive Coordinator

Assistant to the Head Coach

Special Teams Quality Control / Game Management Specialist

Coaching Operations Assistant


Run Game Coordinator / Offensive Line

Assistant Offensive Line – 2

Tight Ends

Quarterbacks

Running Backs

Wide Receivers

Offensive Coaching Fellow

Offensive Passing Game Specialist

Senior Offensive Assistant

Offensive Assistant

Offensive Quality Control -2


Special Teams Coordinator

Assistant Special Teams


Defensive Coordinator

Assistant Head Coach / Defense

Defensive Backs

Assistant Defensive backs

Linebackers

Defensive Line

Defensive Quality Control – 3


· Differences on paper –

o The Modern day coaching staff has an Offensive minded Head Coach with more staff dedicated to the offensive side of the ball.

o The Modern day coaching staff appears to have sperate duties between positional coaching and game plan preparation in such that there is a dedicated coach for Pass Game Coordination and Run Game Coordination. The Old School coaching staff does have a senior offensive assistant and 2 offensive assistants so perhaps they could be involved in these game prep duties.

o The Modern day coaching staff has three assistants that appear to report directly to the Head Coach and support him with organizational, operational, and game management duties. Perhaps they assist with things like analytics, review challenges, game trends, etc. all the little things that can provide a competitive edge.

o The Modern day coaching staff appears to focus heavily on the offensive line with a minimum of three coaches that we know of involved in the positional coaching of the line.

o The Modern day coaching staff appears to be building a pipeline of coaches whether it is redundancy to the Special Teams Coordinator through a an assistant to the Special Teams or the multiple Defensive and Offensive Assistants. This builds stability allows for more attention to detail and personal time between player and coach because there are more coaches to go around. This builds a standard that isn’t shaken if a coach advances or moves on because there is always an assistant behind him who has been groomed to move up.

 

WAIT.
We have 4?

4!!!?

strength and conditioning coaches???

HMMM. I swear i've seen threads about firing the one for like 20years now.

 

What, What......We have 4 Strength and Conditioning coaches and the 49ers have none???

Old School: being in a gym lifting heavy weights so you can push people around.
New School: taking a Pilates class over your lunch break.

 

Spinning classes
Pilates
Tai Chi
Miming

Keep in mind our weight room is as sticky as duct tape

 

We must be new school cause our hc coaches lack of game situations ,game prep , discipline and best use of talent is very offensive to many Steeler fans

 

Unfortunately, using the mere numerical value of the Steelers Coaching Staff relative to others amounts to nothing overall as a result. For that matter, this has been done before. This current season is no different as far as the amount of Coaches go.


Now, the quality of those Coaches?! That is a much different question to ask all together. Pittsburgh does have more Offensive Coaches now in 2024 than in 2022; though an increase of one via the Senior Offensive Assistant role via Mike Sullivan. How well will this all play out in 2024?!?!......



.... gonna have to wait and see.

 

They do they just don’t list them on their website. The Steelers still have the one that retired listed on their website so he probably consults with the new guys.

 

I understand what your saying regarding the number coaches but it is the only thing we have to go by from a fan perspective other than what we see as far as finished product on Sundays. What we don’t know is what the assistants actually do on the Steelers who aren’t position coaches. The 49’er’s have alot more redundancy which matters. Also with that number of coaches compared to the Steelers I think it matters in the sense when you look at Schools they always promote teacher student ratio. The smaller number of students in the class the more one on one time the students get with the teacher which should mean a better outcome for the student. You would think with more coaches the players are going to get more attention individually which can make a huge difference especially on an individual position basis if I guy is struggling with fundamentals, etc.

Look at James Harrison. The guy had all the talent in the world but it took him getting cut three times and three years before he actually settled down and learned the defense. At this level these guys are all fantastic athletes. It truly is about developing each player to maximize their abilities. I look at SF and they are like a factory for coaches. I think it is very different from our style. They really teach and then equip subordinates or assistant coaches to teach and equip and pass it down to the players. I think when you have more coaches you have the ability to not micro manage the players but micro teach the players your system and hold them accountable more.

In addition SF has the assistants that support the HC like game management coach, or anyltitics coach. There is a reason why Tomlin is terrible at in game challenges or half time adjustments. I don’t understand as nearly billion dollar organization why you don’t look at who is doing it well and mimic what they are doing.

 

Steelers need a head coach with a background and experience in offense.

 

From the OP and here I see what you are trying to get to (Colin Cowherd on Monday) lol, but the number of Coaches does not necessarily make you more successful. I do think the HC having a coaching tree is a more accurate assessment of the success of his program than anything. Not saying those coaches become great HC's, but look at the coaching trees of Shula, Noll, Landry, and follow the trees of successful HC's the following decades. Also look where these guys came from and you see HOF lineage all over the place. Tony Dungy was an OK player for the Steelers, but Noll and other Coach's noticed his abilities in dissecting and interpreting things in the tape room. He went from player, to coach, to def' coor quickly (perhaps to fast), finally got his chance at HC and was pretty damn good.

It has been spoken of much in this room, MT's coaching tree is pretty barren, adding more staff may help in some areas, but getting his ego out of the way, getting good coordinators and coach's in house, and let them do their job may accomplish more.

 

this,,, with the smarts and no ego to let the def. guys do their job, or opposite, MT needs to let the offensive guys do their thing, and have less say in who he hires in those positions.

 

Arians and Lebeau were already on the staff when Tomlin was hired in 2007. Popcorn didn't interfere with either of them.

 

Will AR II go in that direction?! That remains to be seen. Sounds silly to ask but the previous Head Coaching hire only saw two out of eight total hires that possessed experience on the Offensive Side of the ball. Hell, all of Pittsburgh's successful year were with Defensive Head Coaches; three since 1969 as you know.


The biggest question should be if AR 2 really wants to change that much. Granted, Omar Kahn has been rock solid thus far but that alone is both still to be determined and still not enough. Jury is out on Arthur Smith.

 

All I can say is.....go to any of the other boards, and the only coach I see getting a free pass is A. Reid, and before He got Mahomes.....I promise He didn't on any KC board. I used to laugh at the negative talk about him when I was visiting my friend who are diehard KC fans......now they think He's the greatest thing, but before Mahomes.....many were ready to get rid of Him. Biggest thing they always said.....now we see why Philly fired Him.

 

Yes I remember. He was called one of the biggest playoff chokers of all time. Blowing a 3 TD lead against Andrew Luck and the Colts, losing to us despite the fact we didn't score a TD and a crushing playoff loss to the Titans and Marcus Mariotta in a game in which they were heavily favored. He was just Fat Andy the choker until Mahomes came along and now he is on the Mount Rushmore of NFL coaches.

 

We need a coach that can be both a modern coach that implements a system that works with today’s game. Today’s rules and officiating are skewed towards benefiting the offense. We need more of an old school approach managing players to keep the attitudes and egos in check.

 

The same can be said for Belicheck while he had Brady. That all changed after Brady left. Its obvious the antidote to Superbowl Wins in the NFL is a Franchise QB and great coach. However if you don’t have the Franchise QB then the only thing you can do is make the rest of the team as good as possible. Thats why I think the SF 49 er’s are such a great barometer. Purdy is pretty good but he isn’t Mahomes. I really believe Shanahan is the best HC in the league. He does a fantastic job of developing players and coaches. The guy already has a coaching tree in the NFL and he is relatively young. On the flip side because we don’t have a Franchise QB does that mean we just give up or do we try to get better? I think looking at a team like SF is prudent with all of the success they have had. At the very least get Tomlin some help with in game challenges, clock management, half time adjustments etc.

 

Travis Kelce gets angry about something that happened on the field that was not something called by a coach, nor something that was part of the game plan. Kelce then goes physically after Andy Reid, his Head Coach. You would NEVER have seen that happen to Noll. It would not ever have happened to Cowher. And Mike Tomlin would have traded his ass for a 3rd round pick and 2 future 7th rounders. Yet Andy Reid gets a pass because he has Mahomes as his QB. I don't know about this 'modern' approach.

 

What success has Kyle Shanahan and the 49ers actually had? I am not saying he/they are not good. Their best weapon(McCaffrey) was already an established, known commodity when the 49ers added him. He was not developed by Shanahan's offense. As good as Shanahan's offense has been, and it has typically been one of the best, he still has 3 very bad seasons with the 49ers out of his 7 total, like 2nd pick in the draft bad. This is not a bash Kyle Shanahan post. I'm only pointing out that as good as KS has had it since taking the SF job, MT has been more consistently winning.

 

Those 3 seasons were before his last 4 where he went to the SB 4 years in a row. He actually has produced a coaching tree and a successful one at that. Yeah McCaffrey helps but every team has their stars. We have Watt and Minkah. Again Shanahan has done all of this without a Franchise QB. His team is literally stacked on both sides of the ball. Name a coach in the league over the last five years that has been as successful as him without a franchise QB? It's nearly impossible to be as consistently good as they have been without a franchise QB. We scrape bye and barely get into the playoffs and we are out in the first round and we are consider one of the model organizations with a top five coach. If Shanahan had Mahomes he would have won at least two Super Bowls by now.

 

can credit the 9'ers front office for that team. i will say the old guy in seattle has always done a pretty good job without a franchise qb. old pete always put a competitive team on the field. john lynch has done very well at building the 49'ers team.

you talk about a franchise qb and mccaffery then throw in our stars of minkah and watt, which are both on the defense. who are our offensive stars? 49'ers also have deebo, ayuik, kittle, and a good o-line. makes it much easier to function without a franchise qb. the defense isn't too shabby either. sure makes shannahan look like a brilliant coach. plus lynch brought him in too. that's the guy that deserves most of the glory out there.

 

Lynch deserves credit but he does put the scheme together and coach the team. The coaching tree is a direct result of Shannahan’s success as a coach. On our team on offense I think Firermuth, Pickens and Warren would be stars in the right scheme with the right coaching. Sf’s line has a bunch of no names on the offensive line with the exception of Williams. Again that is testament to coaching. I would say Aiyuk is good but in that system he is viewed as a star. I don’t see him being anything special outside of that system. Thats why I don’t want him. everyone views him as a number one here. No way he would be behind Pickens in my mind. Kittle is a star partly because of his personality and being a on a SuPer Bowl team. If he were here he would be a faster version of Friermuth. A guy with upside and untapped potential. You gotta give Shannahan some credit here. He has made it to alot of Super Bowls without a franchise QB. that says alot about his coaching and scheme. His scheme has been copied around the league. Copying what another coach does is the ultimate form of flattery.

 

Yes Andy Reid has been fired by Philly after 2012 but when you stay for 14 years as head coach in Philadelphia, it's an incredible accomplishment because Philly is such a tough place to coach with all the pressure from the fans and media... It's the toughest place in sports, even tougher than New York.I mean the current head coach of the eagles is on the hot seat for 2024 despite making the playoffs 3 times in 3 season and been in the super bowl in one of those year

Reid was also close to having a HOF resume before Mahomes and his QBs have for the most part always been productive under Reid...He has always been a great offensive mind....His weakness was clock management

 

I agree that having a franchise QB is the most important thing and without that it's hard to be a super bowl contender consistently but I question Tomlin if he would be able to develop a young QB with a huge ceilling but some issues that need to be fixed....Remember Mahomes had such a huge ceilling but had some issues that needed to be fixed too, one of the reasons why he was only drafted 10th and teams like the 49ers didn't draft Mahomes even if they had the opportunity

If somehow Tomlin was able to fix Fields and he would be a decent QB, I would give him a lot of credit, since the Bears were unable to do it.

 

Compare Tomlin to Reid all you want but as I said before, the real question to ask yourself is could Tomlin be creative enough with a guy as dynamic as Mahomes to put him in the best position to win? Or could he make the necessary hire at coordinator to do so? If he's not, then you have wasted talent at quarterback.

Say what to you will about Reid's shortcomings before getting Mahomes but I don't think it's a stretch to say that Reid was able to get much more out of Mahomes than Tomlin would be able to. Just my opinion.