Ok Im going to try to illustrate this for Yinz

Below is a screen shot of an quick excel doc that I did listing the Steelers starting O line from week to week for this season. Each different combination is colored differently to more clearly see the different combinations used. Thats five different combinations used through out the year. Six if you consider that going into the last preseason game David DeCastro was penciled in to start at RG.

Pay especially close attention to how ofter the colors change down the stretch and also the Steelers W/L record during those color changes. Also note how the offense sputtering seems to coincide the the numerous losses AND the quick color changes. Through the first 9 games the Steelers had used only two different combinations along the O line and surprise, surprise, surprise their record was 6-3. The 10th game, a loss to Baltimore, was more of a result of playing a back up QB who had broken ribs.

This team simply didn't have the continuity along the line to produce down the stretch. And when it did have the continuity, the defense was busy sh*ting the bed. Early season losses were squarely on the D.

And this little graph only deals with the starters. In game injuries are not reflected.

The ONLY constant along the line is Max Starks. He started all 16 games there. Also don't forget that by the end of the year, Pittsburgh was down to their 3rd string RT for the last 3 games, had their original starting RG (who was REALLY the back up RG) starting at LG and their All Pro C starting at LG for a game while their back up LG replaced him at C.

In a nutshell, relax people. There is no need for wholesale changes. No need to replace Haley. No need to fire Tomlin. No need to draft a QB #1. No need to trade for Steven Jackson. No need to trade for Alex Smith. No need to fire the Strength and Conditioning coach. No need to fire the ball boy. Or no need to panic. Get/keep the O line healthy for next year and the Steelers are right back into the mix.

 

The problem is it's been the same thing for 5 years now. We keep saying that next year will be better, yet it never is. I'm starting to think that whatever is going wrong is going to continue to go wrong. Maybe it's the coaching causing the injuries. Our guys aren't being coached up enough, they're playing sloppy and as such are hurting each other/themselves.

Something is very wrong with this team and I'm not convinced it's going to be fixed next year. I hope it is, but I'm not going to hold my breath. I think we're going to see more of the game. Poor execution among the whole team, undisciplined play, players coming to camp out of shape, injuries among the OL, inconsistent play from Ben and not being able to handily beat the weaker teams in the league. That's pretty much been the story of Tomlin's career here, why would it suddenly change next year?

 

Which chart shows Ben overthrowing wide open receivers?

 

I'll agree...to a point.

The crazy stupid untimely penalties have been going on. I do not recall them being as bad under Cowher. And I have been questioning numerous Tomlin decisions recently. But his career here does include 2 Super Bowls. You can't discount that. Overall he is still a good coach. But all of those things you listed are imperfections that the Steelers have. And all teams have weaknesses. I just think the biggest problem is the health of the line...for a number of years now. Stay healthy there and a lot of your concerns are either gone or their significance reduced greatly.

 

Yes because no one else makes mistakes. Not even Tom Brady:
[video=youtube;Di-p-bOm9SE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di-p-bOm9SE[/video]
Or Peyton Manning:
[video=youtube;DBlvjtfpPAg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBlvjtfpPAg[/video]

 

it amazes me how some Steelers fans have become so spoiled. Ben is not Brady or Manning. we get it. those guys only come around once in a lifetime. they will go down as 2 of the greatest if not the greatest to ever play the position. people need to stop comparing Ben to those guys. unless Brady has a neck injury and misses a full year and the Pats give up on him he wont be available. ever!

Ben is a very good qb that has won super bowls. teams dont win super bowls every year. it doesnt work that way. the fact that they have been in the super bowl 3 times since 2005 is pretty good. not many teams can say that. ever in their franchises history that they went to the super bowl 3 times in 7 years. hell most teams havent been to the super bowl 3 times in their history.

 

Are you talking to me, or Poly?
I agree, Ben is neither of those guys.

 

I am not complaining about Ben (or whether he was elite or not). I just think he sucked this year. Even early in the year, he wasn't as great as people are saying he was. Watch the first 8 games again, he could have played better. Just because he checked down occasionally (like he should do more of all the time) doesn't mean he was playing well.

Hell in week 1, he threw a pick 6 - it was like foreshadowing for week 16 and 17.

The O line was bad yes, but the rest of the team equally sucked.

Funny how everyone got off of Lebeau's rear end and started to jump all over Haley.

 

And Tomlin also sucked big nuts.

I watched Inside the NFL on showtime and they had Keisel miked up and sound bites of Tomlin on the sideline - I just want to sock him in the face. SO frustrating listening to Tomlin.

 

I'm with you on this one polyjb, Ben was terrible this year. Ben is a good QB but not a Great QB. We find so many resons to give this guy a pass.

 

It's on the same charts that shows all the receiver's dropped passes.

 

But... but... but... what else are we going to talk about on the board???

FIRE BOBBYBIZ IMMEDIATELY!

 

fix the right side of that line and replace foster with DD and we should have a good line going forward. i'm never going to believe colon and max and foster are that good or good enough. we need true mobile guards and a good young LT. hopefully adams becomes that. the run game will take off. the screen game will take off and ben won't have to run around as much. pretty good isn't cutting it and hasen't for several years now. give me guys that can run block as well as they pass block and visa-versa guards that can pull and lead on screens and plays to the outside as well as up the middle traps and you will see this type of offense click. i also want guys to gel off the field and workout together to get stronger and stay in shape during the year. that's not that much to ask is it?

 

Very true.

I think no one wants to talk about injuries because they think of them as excuses. Coaches and players are supposed to spout things like "next man up" and "the standard is the standard" because they do not want to undermine the confidence of the players who are replacing injured starters and they don't want to seem like excuse makers to the media. But if that were truly the case why have starters and back ups? Why have a practice squad? Why have a draft? Why have varying salaries? The facts are that injuries can and will derail a season. Its not an excuse, its fact and its okay for fans to discuss it.

 

What's funny is people around here love to hate on the Pats and then say "Well Tom Brady does this.... or Tom Brady does that...." I don't think people realize how hypocritical they can be at times. Maybe it's a freudian slip ya know? They really harbor an enormous man crush on Brady and to lighten the blow of his rejection they try to convince themselves they hate him. But in the heat of the moment their true love comes shining through. LOL.

 

I view injuries as explanations and not excuses. That's my rule for any team. Yeah any NFL player is a pro but if you think there are not different levels of talent you are incredibly misguided. Look at the Colts when Manning went down. If that had happened to this team there would be people on here talking about how we need to fire our coaches and comparing stats from years where Manning was playing to the year where he didn't and saying "look how good we used to be!!!" and then a few reasonable people would have to say to them "yeah but that was when we had our franchise qb compared to when we didn't and that's a pretty stupid comparison for you to make." Then they would become angry and say that we are "real fans" or whatever but it wouldn't change that fact that injuries can make or break a season in the NFL.

 

I tire of the 'Ben is no Brady or Manning' quotes'. Well, Manning and Brady cannot do on the field what I've seen Ben do too.

There is an ebb n flow in all things life. This book has not been written yet. Ben has time to do some more amazing things. We've been to the big dance thrice with this young man.

Give me a break. So we had an off year and missed the playoffs by one game. Perhaps one throw that came down to Ben again, w/ seconds to go. We keep going to that well it was bound to go wrong at least once. The guy will be back to make the big plays you watch.

You take your Manning and Brady, I'll take Ben and in the end get you anyway!

 

There's a big difference between hating the Patriots as an organization and hating one player. I like Brady, for the most part and admire his skill at the position but hate the pats for the video cheating, alleged extra speaker in the QBs helmet and for the NFLs seeming love affair with this one team above others.

 

Actually it was 3 throws that came down to Ben in three diffrent games. Denver, Dallas, "and where the hammer met the nail" Cincy.

 

Wow. Just wow. Its really hard to have a legit conversation with someone who says stuff like this. Sure we all have different opinions and different views, but sometimes people are just so far out there, so far detached from reality that its just difficult to take them seriously. I don't know how you or anyone in their right mind could look at Ben Roethlisbergers body of work up until the Kansas City game and say that he sucked or wasn't as good as advertised. Even the most ardent Ben bashers couldn't seriously look at his pre injury stats as a whole and say that they sucked or weren't as great as people think. Sure you could cherry pick a game here or a half there or even an occasional possession here or throw there and point to them as evidence of them being 'sucky', but you could do that with just about anyone. I could show you the first quarter of the Broncos and Falcons game from week 2 where Peyton Manning threw 3 picks in his first 8 attempts that handed the Falcons 10 pts and essentially the game (they eventually won by 6) as evidence that he's not as great as people think. But to do so is dishonest (or delusional) and misleading.

Before the KC game Ben was 200 0f 296 for 2003 yds 14TDs and 4INTs for a rating north of 96. Statistically he was on pace for one of his best seasons and was in the early discussions for possible MVP candidates.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap10...-roethlisbergers-teammates-push-mvp-candidacy
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/11...ng-among-top-mvp-candidates-at-halfway-point/
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/11/steelers-support-roethlisberger-for-mvp/
http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/...teelers/118787-ed-ben-should-be-mvp-candidate
http://www.wjrsportsnetwork.com/2012/12/roethlisberger-was-mvp-candidate.html

Either you have a very very short memory, or you just flat out do not like Ben Roethlisberger.

 

Yeah and a lot of people hate on them more when it's CONVENIENT ya know? They'll hate on them til it comes time to hate on someone else then they will talk about these guys in comparison. I bet it happens will all team's fans though. I bet there were a lot of Colts fans that would talk about Brady every time Peyton choked in the playoffs. I bet there are Bears fans that talk about Rodgers when Cutler stinks up the joint. It's just natural to do it.

 

I don't know what you guys are getting at, but Im not comparing Ben to Brady. Actually Im pointing out that even the great ones (Brady/Manning) aren't always great. Sh** happens to every QB.

 

Hey Bobby go over to the "Is Ben elite" thread and you will see that I am STILL waiting for an answer from a hater as to WHY he is a hater. If feel exactly like you do. It's the same thing I try to explain to people that won't accept the fact that Haley's offense was running just fine. They can't see the difference between healthy players and hurt players.

 

And Im certainly not hating on either one also.

Ive always said they are both in the top 5 of all time. Any reference to them is not meant as 'hate.'