id love to see a poll... is ben elite

Why are you comparing Ben to QBs who are barely stater caliber? The point here is that with a quality caliber QB those teams of the 90's would have been champions a few times. We should have been Denver on an AFCCG but Kordell kept throwing INTs in the endzone. There were a few other years where with a marginally better QB than what we had, we could have won it all.

Compare Ben to the top 8 QBs today, and he is not near the top of that list.

There are many other QBs in this league that could get the team that we have to more than 7 wins. I like Ben as out QB but he is no longer a major difference maker (except sometime in the negative way). I don't recall him actually leading this team to a win this year, but rather not getting it done, or the past 2 games, loosing it.

 

you like many others are missing the point. finding a top tier qb isnt as easy as you think. im not sure who the top 8 in your book are, but how many super bowls do those guys have? Ben has 2 rings and 3 appearances.

your right about comparing Ben to non NFL caliber qbs that the Steelers had during a 25 year drought. that is presicely the point. they went 25 years between NFL caliber qbs capable of leading them to a super bowl win. now they have a guy that has taken them to 3 and people around here want to run him out of town.

to win a super bowl it takes a team effort. this Steeler team wasnt capable of winning a super bowl. they had way to many flaws and Ben was only one of them, but they do have the talent to get back to a super bowl team and Ben is the qb that can help with that.

 

you also had a coach for 15 years that didn't value a qb that much.

 

I listed the wrong SB. I meant SB45.

Even then... that drive was all Antonio and that's why he was MVP and not Ben. Ben had a great series there, though!

 

And here is your answer... Because you do not need an elite QB to win an SB. You just need an above average QB who is surrounded by the right talent. And that is what Ben is.

 

Brady, manning, Rogers,brees are elite. Ben is good, but he's never taken that next step and still makes too many stupid decisions with the ball.

 

Other then Brady, the other 3 you listed have 1 SuperBowl win each. Are they elite because of their great regular season stats. Stats dont = wins and those 3 prove it. If you want to use Stats, use post-season wins... that is the only stat that matters.

 

The packers have a worse OL than we do, their running back is who? We have a better overall defense, yet Rogers keeps them winning. He carries that team. Brady (with Belicheck) change their game to whatever is required to win. Manning leave Indy and they can't win but 2 games. Luck come in and they are back. Great and o real good QBs find ways to win. Ben lead a drive for a win one single time tis year, same as Charlie Batch. He played poorly this year, especially the sencond half.

 

Being that its a team sport Super Bowl wins is a horrible gauge. It sounds all nice and pretty but it's pretty much garbage. The same holds true for the yahoos that go on and on about how all tebow does is win.

 

o
h boy he was throwing a bunch of 2 yard passes clearly that makes home godlike.

 

But they do win. Which is proof of my point.

Eli Manning is not as good as Brady but he has defeated him twice in the SB...

Ben most definitely does not sit above that group. He does not sit with that group. And I never thought anyone on this board was suggesting that. Heck, at this point, Eli is edging Ben. Ben is still one of the top QBs, in the NFL. He's just not in the elite group, IMO. He needs a strong running game and a strong defense behind him, or it seems he cannot win. The group of QBs you mention get it done even if they are reduced to being one-dimensional on offense and have to shoot it out with the opposing QB. Ben has not proven he can do that, consistently.

We can agree to disagree, but I stand by my statement... "An above average QB surrounded by the right talent."

 

It's the #1 goal and the reason for playing.... to win championships. Would you rather have a QB that guides his team to a great regular season record and breaks passing records, only to choke in the playoffs year after year? Or would you want a QB that wins most of the time, doesnt get the fancy stats, but has won 2 out 3 SuperBowls he has played in? You can keep your stats and ill take the elite QB that wins most of the time, when it counts the most.

 

WHat part of it being a team sport do you not understand? We beat the Seahawks in spite of Ben's play. The rest of the team played their asses off and made big plays at critical junctures.

 

Well Ben DID score a TD in that game and also made the key block that helped Hines score his TD on the gadget play. You're right that it's a team sport and in that Seattle game we played team football. Yeah Ben was rated really low but there were 30 other qb's watching that game. Ben was actually playing in it. Not bad for a guy in his 2nd year who actually made the tackle that kept our season alive until the SB anyway ya know?

 

WHY DO PEOPLE ONLY LOOK AT THAT ONE GAME!!! Steelers would have never been playing in that game without the great play of Ben in the 3 playoff games before it.

 

This is a bump since the "Mendenhall vs. Dwyer" thread turned into a conversation that belongs here.

If people find their way here, then lets discuss what criteria makes a QB elite.

I think one aspect of an elite QB would be that they are able to play well and win when they are forced to play one-dimensional (w/out a run game or not much of a run game).

 

Elite at what? Making a 100 million dollars and losing games? Ben won 2 SB's. Really. A 22 QB rating, the lowest ever and he won it? WOW he must be elite. He looked real elite in the first half of that chiefs game before he got hurt. That was the season.
I don't want to get in a pissing contest with you but why are half the posts in this thread is you saying how elite Ben is when its obvious he is not. Who are you trying to convince? Yourself? Are you on Benny's payroll? A Ben lover over at Stillers.com admitted he was a MU alumni. That explained it. Whats your angle or connection to this future hall of famer?

 

Peyton Manning didn't play good in his ONLY SB appearance. If you judge how good a guy is based off of a single game Peyton is not elite either. Phil Simms threw a perfect passer rating in the SB. Do you think he was a better qb than Ben? Terry Bradshaw didn't throw his 1st 300 yard game until SB 13. Ben has pretty much all of his records. Is Bradshaw elite or not? You also realize that Ben rushed for a TD in his first SB right? You seem to be saying you would rather Ben have good stats than to just win at all costs. Who cares about stats? For Ben to do what he has done behind an o line that has been atrocious for so many years is incredible. I understand that you don't like him and that's fine but when someone presents facts to you and you disregard the facts in favor of an insult you prove beyond any doubt that you have no argument. What STATS would you use to prove that Ben is NOT elite. We have given stats to show that he is. YOU should give stats to show that he is not. I will wait. I'm not trying to be a wiseguy. I honestly would like to hear a fact based argument for your criticism. I crititcize Wallace but I do it based on the fact that I can specifically say that he drops passes. So is it a problem with Ben's winning percentage? A problem with his career passer rating? His TD/INT ratio? His playoff win percentage? I'm honestly curious.

 

Stiiiiiiilllll waiting Ballhair....