Time for the Tomlin discussion

Wow your sarcasm is so clever. I wonder if you would have commented had we not won yesterday. You act like that win was convincing or something. If your fine with mail biters and ugly wins occasionally and not having won a playoff game in oh I don’t know how long.

I used to be a Tomlin apologist like you then I realized it is the same year after year after year. I understand his loyalty and I applied him for it but it can be detrimental at times. My bigger issue actually with Tomlin is the way he has constructed the defense and he has all the control of the defense so it won’t change as long as he is here.

if your ok having a terrible run defense year after year and never really having great cb play then you by all means should be a Tomlin defender. I guess I just miss Lebeau defenses. Forgive me for wanting to go back to that.

splash plays are nice but they aren’t sustainable throughout a season.

 

You didn’t really read all of that did you

 

I would have sent it regardless of the outcome because I know you cannot change things this year. It is what it is and we have to play on. My satire was meant to illustrate that many coaches have issues and struggle for a time while they try and rebuild. The coach didn’t forget how to coach. Personnel issues as well as injuries trip up the best of them. Do you think Jimmy Johnson forgot how to coach when he went to Miami and couldn’t get it going. It’s what you have to work with. As far as Tomlin constructing the defense, you don’t know your history. Tomlin was a 4-3 guy and when he came here they told him they wanted to stay with the 3-4 zone deal that Dick had success with.

Remember, you can never go back. The prior teams were what they were. I know that TB 12 dismantled our pass defense like a wrecking ball and we never figured him out. Dick was a great coach but Tom had his number.

It will be ok, they will get better as the season progresses. They are not going to win a Super Bowl. We will have to make a decision on the QB as well as the entire coaching staff in February. My guess is that Tomlin’s future is up to him. Did you see what NE did? They are staying with their guy and allowing him to remake the team.

 

https://www.dispatch.com/story/sports/nfl/2007/09/23/tomlin-makes-good-call-in/23869194007/

 

This is a good analysis of the situation. There are too many people who only think in black and white. Thanks for unpacking the nuance in a succinct and insightful way.

 

False on the "splash plays." The stats for plays of 20 plus yards are a key for winning teams. They sustain them all the way to the Super Bowl.

 

That’s your comeback. No mention of the run defense huh? I guess poor run defense sustains teams all the way to the Suoerbowl as well.

 

I’m pretty confident Tomlin will have a say on wether he continues or not. I do remember Tomlin adopting Lebeau scheme in the beginning and your right Brady carved us up even when Tomlin took over the defense he carved us up especially when we played zone.

Tomlin essentially plays 4-3 now with the third on the back end being a box safety. My issue is the way the interior defensive lineman are asked to play. He has them essentially penetrating a single gap and often times running themselves out of the play and also allowing offensive lineman to get to the second level and hus blocking mlb’s. Lebaues teams played gap contain and laterally down the line occupying multiple blockers and clogging up the run lanes and keeping the middle linebackers free to flow to the ball. I know you won’t get that with only two down lineman but at least put bigger interior defenders in who will occupy multiple blockers and somewhat clog up the run lanes.

I also don’t like the edge players crashing in on the running back on runs up the A and B gap because we lose outside contain if the rb bounces it outside or the QB does an ROO and keeps it and takes it outside. In those situations we are asking our cb’s to play outside contain and none of them can tackle.

I just think you need to play to your personnel’s strengths. Doesn’t seem like a great scheme to stop the run to me and it puts extra pressure on the mlb’s and cb’s while allowing the defensive lineman and edge players to tee off. It’s feast or famine. I guess I’m a little more conservative. I wouldn’t have a problem playing that way if we had a lead but we play that way regardless of the score. It’s definitely risky.

 

Yep I remember but he couldn’t contain himself in tge matter part of Lebeau tenure and ever since then he has essentially taken over the defense.

 

Your comments have nothing to do with each other. I’m simply disagreeing with you that splash plays cannot be sustained. Good teams do sustain plays of 20 plus yards all season and through the playoffs. Every season.

 

We are in our 9th season since Lebeau left. In four of those nine seasons, our defense was top 10 in yds/game against the run. In another one or two seasons we were just outside the top 10.

I know there have been a few seasons where we have been historically bad against the run, but believe some of that could be attributable to injuries and unfortunate circumstances. As an example, our middle LB situation after Shazier wasn’t good for some time. We also had Tuitt just retire out of the blue.

To your comment about Lebeau. He is a legend in my mind. I also think his zone blitz concept got figured out. Quick short passing games carve that system up. The evolution of the NFL made it obsolete. Lebeau had a middle of the road defense in Tennessee for the three years after he left us.

 

LeBeau has been a great DC for us for many years but it was time for a change after 2014...Our defense was terrible in 2013 and 2014, one of the reasons was because several older players had taken retirement or they were very old at this point in their career but the other reason was the zone blitz were no longer good in this NFL era...Almost all the other teams had adjusted to this scheme, so it It was time for a change....The Packers with Dom Capers had the same problem, especially in the playoffs

But the biggest problem was not letting LeBeau go but replacing him with Butler

 

.....and then we dance?

For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven: a time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up what is planted; a time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; a time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; a time to throw away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing; a time to seek, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to throw away; a time to tear, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; a time to love, and a time to hate; a time for war, and a time for peace.

 

I was more referring to splash plays on defense which equates to turnovers and sacks. You can’t always rely on those. I’m not sure what you are referring to. I assume big plays on offense which is strange because nowhere in my post was I referring to offense. My comment about tge run defense was simply made to point out how you ignored that element if the post.

 

I went back and read your original post. I see the point you’re making about defense and defensive splash plays. You’re correct, They are not generally as reliable as offensive splash plays by the high powered offenses.

There have been some exceptions…Ravens 2000, Seahawks legion of boom, a couple iterations of the Steelers, etc. so a good defense can be depended upon for some points or field position. If your defense is your best unit, then you should have some expectation for them to produce winning plays.

 

I will say I agree with you on the offensive splash plays. If we can give Pickett time I have come to expect some splash plays from Pickens every game. I feel like for the Steelers to sustain splash plays on defense we are still one CB short and probably a DT short. Tomlin defensive scheme needs Cam in their someone who requires double teams to neutralize. I’m not seeing that with Montravius Adams so that frees up blockers to focus on Highsmith and Watt more.

 

The run defense has Been inconsistent, that isn’t in question. There are probably several reasons, primarily the staffing at inside backer. The guys seem to be improving but there is no clear leader yet. I believe that part of the problem is that Cam is out. He is the emotional leader of the team and sets the tone on defense. Him not being there is a factor and Watt is a great player but he does not seem to be a clear leader yet. I think he is moving that way with Herbig and Highsmith. Cam sets the tone and motivates guys on the field. Minka and TJ will take that over but we are still trying to jell. There is no clear leadership on the offense yet, I was hoping Muth would be that but he isn’t.

 

We definitely need some verbal leaders on the team, especially on offense. I don’t think the MLB’s are the main issue with the run defense. I think it is more scheme related.

We ask our cb’s to often play outside contain when it is a designed run between the tackles with the edges aggressively crashing down the line of scrimmage. The issue is our cb’s can’t tackle well. We also ask our DT’s to one gap penetrate and it works great when they pick the correct gap or get in quick but they also run themselves out of plays alot and that style of defense allows offensive lineman to get to the second level to seal off MLB’s. That is why nearly every mlb free agent we have brought in within this scheme has underperformed. Unless the mlb is a freak like Shazier and performs above the scheme most aren’t going to do that great in our system. Our defensive system is not mlb friendly. It us Edge and DT friendly because it essentially allows those guys to pin their ears back and rush the passer nearly every play and play the run on the way too the QB.

I would much rather see us play gap contain where the DT’s are bigger and they occupy multiple Olineman and go down the line laterally plugging up run lanes or pushing the pocket back in a passing situation so the QB can’t step up when the edges are putting pressure on the him. This also would free up the MLB’s to flow freely to the ball without Olineman getting to the second level.

I also would love to see more press man coverage on the back end but we just don’t have those type of corners that can play that with the exception of JPJ. We don’t have the DT’s that can play that style if Dline play I described either with the exception of Heyward and Benton who are our two biggest Dlineman. The rest of the Dlineman are smaller and quick which caters to more of a gap penetrating style. Tomlin seems to like that style and I’m not sure why. He just seems to be completely committed to putting pressure on the QB at the expense of everything else.

 

I like Mike Tomlin. But he seems to say big words so he looks more educated? It seems like he is obsessed with coming up with new phrases??

 

Tomlin said he does this because it makes people/players pay attention listen and remember

And this post alone proves it is working

There is an entire OP on it now

http://thesteelersfans.com/forums/threads/tenor-of-a-crew.31594/

 

Wonder what happened week one against the 49er's?

 

To be fair,the 49ers had also the same time to prepare for this game that the steelers....

 

Cheat code doesn't matter if Your controller isn't working properly. LoL

 

Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A