How do we Fix the Run Defense?

I would like people’s honest opinions on what they think the issue is and what is the solution?

I used tho think we had a problem with defending the RPO and asking to much of our MLB’s but after this game I think the problem is much deeper.

With RPO it really neutralizes a MLB causing them to hesitate for a split second allowing a pulling guard or center to get on top of them. But we didn’t really have that threat in this game at least in the second half.

I believe our problem is both schematic and personnel. Tomlin defense from a defending the run perspective and defending the short to intermediate crossing patterns completely depends on a Super Star at MLB. I don’t want that kind of scheme anymore. I want scheme that requires average MLB’s to be successful.

How is that possible. It is possible if we invest in Perimeter Shutdown Corners that can match up one on one with WR’s allowing our Safeties and in particular our strong Safety to primary focus on supporting the MLB’s and coverage in the box and run support. It also works if we get away from smaller gap penetrating Defensive Lineman and focus on bigger Gap Contain Defensive lineman who are responsible for going laterally and maintain multiple gaps and tying up lineman not allowing them to get to the second level.

The problem is with RPO you are asking a MLB to look at the QB the RB and possible a crossing WR or TE as well as have their head on a swivel for a pulling guard or center. A RPO basically takes a penetrating Defensive lineman out of the play if the defensive lineman guesses wrong. Our scheme puts all of the pressure on the MLB’s and when they fail it puts pressure on the Safeties and CB’s to support the run.

We covered some of this up when we had Tuitt and Heyward performing at a high level because even though they were gap penetrators they still required two lineman each to try to prevent them from getting into the backfield. Cam is older now and he can’t sustain that level of play over a full game and he certainly can’t when he is the only one getting double teamed the whole time. Ogunjobi or any of our other DL don’t get double teamed much.

At this point we have just been throwing bodies at the problem hoping for a solution. It will never work unless we hit on two blue chip DL and a bluechip MLB which to me is asking a lot. To me run stuffing DT’s that are also capable of collapsing the pocket accomplish a lot for the defense.

#1 If you play gap contain instead of gap penetration with the Defensive lineman it really frees up the MLB’s in a lot of ways. The MLB’s don’t have to worry about gap integrity as much because they can now flow to the ball. They don’t have to worry about shedding blockers because the offensive lineman are tied up by our defensive lineman. They can focus on pass first in an RPO situation because they have the luxury of the gaps often being clogged up by the containing defensive lineman.

#2 With gap contain and having the defensive lineman move laterally instead vertically it in a way neutralizes the RPO especially if you have solid edge rushers who have outside contain. It gives the MLB’s extra time to figure out who is going to have the ball and whether it is a run or pass.

#3 Gap contain allows you to play the run with less people but be more effective in effect freeing up your MLB’s to have the pass as their first priority. Right now I don’t believe the MLB’s know what their first priority is so in effect that in and of itself paralyzes them. Lessening their priorities allows them to play freer and faster. Under current scheme we have essentially taken away all of Bush’s athleticism asking him to read and react too much. A MLB is similar to a running back. Look at Najee when he was reading and reacting and trying to do to much he was ineffective. When he was essentially told run to the hole and don’t dance he was able to utilize his natural ability and be much more effective.

#4 Gap contain Defensive lineman to me can be had lower in the draft because defenses today are all about these smaller gap penetrating defensive lineman. It is like the days of when we were one of the few teams to be running a 3-4 defense and we essentially could get OLB’s later in the draft because nobody had a position for those guys. Very few teams want gap contain defensive lineman today.

#5 Gap contain Defensive lineman shouldn’t be as expensive as Gap Penetrating Defensive Lineman who get all the sacks. Thus allowing your cap to be spent on actually getting some blue chip permit CB’s thus making the Safeties job a whole lot easier as well.

#6 Gap contain allows you to play with smaller athletic MLB’s which it seems Tomlin has desire for, especially in todays NFL.

#7 Ideally if you can get gap contain DL that can push the pocket on passing downs and play all three downs that would be fantastic but I understand they are hard to find but not as hard as an every down MLB that is being asked to shed blocks and cover WR’s on crossing patterns.

Finally forgetting about defending the RPO but just looking at the last few drives of this Baltimore game, it was evident without any threat of the RPO that our defensive personnel needs an overhaul. Our Linebackers couldn’t get off blocks even when they knew where the ball was going. Our Defensive lineman were in the same boat and often get blocked up by one offensive lineman. It is painfully obvious to me we need to get bigger in the middle of the defense. I am hopeful Tomlin finally comes to grips with this. The fact they have been playing Montravius Adams more and for the second game in a row he got called for defensive holding tells me they are trying to play gap contain a little to free up the MLB’s but we just don’t have the scheme or horses yet. To effectively play gap contain you have to be committed to it. I remember when we started migrating away from gap contain when Hampton retired and we tried to Ziggy Hood at a hybrid DT/NT role and it was never as effective.

We did however have success in 2008 with a hybrid gap contain / penetration defense but RPO wasn’t as prevalent as now and the passing game in general was not as sophisticated. We still had thumpers for the most part playing MLB back then who could shed blocks. Those guys today would struggle in coverage.

So in effect what I am saying is you can’t have gap penetrating defensive lineman and small MLB’s built for coverage as their first priority. In our scheme today you leave the MLB’s completely exposed. You either need to commit to protecting the MLB’s and have very large defensive tackles who can take up two offensive lineman and essentially two gaps or you stay with smaller athletic gap penetrating defensive lineman who focus primarily on getting to the QB and put large thumper linebackers behind them that can shed the block. The issue in this situation is you now are completely exposed to crossing patterns in the passing game.

The only way this would work by the way meaning having thumpers at MLB is having Blue Chip Cornerbacks on the edge that can matchup one on one and freeing up your safeties to support the MLB’s in the pass in the middle of the field. To me it seems like you need a lot more blue chip players at MLB and the Secondary with a gap penetrating defense than you do with a gap contain defense. As soon as the DL penetrates the wrong gap which happens a lot now because RPO is basically the antidote for a penetrating aggressive defense then its like your playing with one less defender on the filed because they have essentially taken themselves out of the play.

So I am all for a gap contain defense. Would love to hear everyone else’s thoughts.

 

There is no fix in 2022.
for 2024:
- Upgrade that speed at ILB.
- Sign a legit CB
- Maybe Jackson adds quality to the depth, like replacing Aurthur. or maybe he fails entirely.
- Draft a good CB

There is 1 Gap, 2 Gap and 3 Gap.
In the 1 Gap, it is more aggressive and you many it with big athletic, faster guys.
In the 2 Gap, all DL have 2 gaps. This is a version you might recognize that GB used with that big NT back in the day. (Gilbert Brown)
The 3 -Gap really isn't a thing in the 3-4, it is a hyrbid and employs the "Jack" (Dick Lebeau used this) It looks like 4-3. TJ is a good example of the Jack.

The 2 Gap is like what the Giants used to enhance LT's presence. We use TJ in LT's role sort of. (I wonder about Austin/Flores rushing diagrams)
This big key is having a NT like Gilbert Brown who destroys the middle of the line.

This could go all day... so I'll stop and just say "reload with players" that fit.

 

It all starts on the defensive line.....

You can't run a base 3-4 with out 3 really good defensive linemen.

Want to know why the 2004-2010 Steelers was so good at stopping the run.

Aaron Smith, Casey Hampton, Brett Kiesel, Kimo Von Olheffen, and Travis Keircske

Dudes were run stopping beasts

You have a good defensive line, it will make your Linebackers better even if they are average.

But your not going to get both those corrected in one draft.... unless your very lucky...

 

What is the Steelers defense the 0 Gap as in we don’t cover any gaps.

 

Would you agree the Defense needs more work than the offense?

 

I feel like Tomlin is trying to run the 3 Gap but he has the Lineman going vertical as Lebaue had them going lateral to really clog up the gaps.Either way you would have to agree under Lebaue’s defenses our MLB’s seemed to be way better protected and could flow to the ball easier. I don’t see that with Tomlin defense at all.
By the way we have speed at ILB. I believe Tomlin schematically asks to much of the MLB’s from a responsibility standpoint when you factor in RPO’s and defending the run and pass all of which neutralizes Bush’s speed.

 

Ooh wow. That's a tough one. The whole freaking thing needs work. I wouldn't even know where to start or say which one needed it more.

 

I think investment on the defensive of line is slightly more of a need of offensive line.

But can't go wrong on investment in the trenches either side of the ball.

 

The way I see it:

Offense needs to add LT, LG and Slot WR.
Defense needs to add DT, 2 MLB, SS, Slot CB, Perimeter CB. (We could probably get by upgrading just one MLB if we revise the defensive scheme.

If manage the offseason right I think we can upgrade at least 4 positions with solid players between the draft and free agency. My preference in order would be as follows:

We can probably get bye for a year without upgrading MLB and Slot WR provided we upgrade LG, DT and CB.

DT and tweaks to our scheme will go a long way to helping the MLB’s. ON Offense I don’t think will be able to upgrade LT and LG in the same draft due to all the needs on defense. If you upgrade LG perhaps our current LT will play better. Simms is good enough at Slot WR as Kenny develops all the WR’s will be better and as the OL continues to gel that will impact both the passing and running games. We forget how young our offense is. I really think we are a lot more solid on offense than we are on defense. We are top heavy with TJ Watt and Minkah and an aging Heyward and an upcoming Highsmith and then a bunch of average to below average players.

You factor in we have three picks between round one and two. Plus hopefully at least one high priced free agent outside of our own signings of maybe Highsmith and Sutton. That leaves you with four new starters hopefully from the draft and free agency not including our own re-signings. So if we can come away with a DT, CB, LG and probably a WR or Edge because we don’t go a draft without drafting at least one. Under that scenario we actually end up with three starters and one depth/spot starter at edge or wr. The following year we can draft the LT and MLB and SS provided Dan Moore doesn’t develop and we don’t sign Edmonds long term. I do have feeling they will probably try to sign Edmonds long term at fair price so that is one less position we have to worry about in the future. Honestly it would be a luxury to upgrade Edmunds at this pint when we have so many other needs, he is at minimum serviceable and familiar with Minkah and the defense.

If we come out of this next offseason with a dominant LG, #1 CB and a Young Blue Chip DT while retaining Edmonds, Sutton and Highsmith I will be happy. I think that would put us one year away from being back in contention. All this is of course assuming Pickett continues to progress as he has been.

 

I agree. The front office guy from Philadelphia is supposedly strong at drafting in that area so that should be good for the Steelers.

 

Bush has lost a step, takes bad angles and has slow reaction. Spillane who splits time there is no speedster but very smart.
Myles Jack is a decent tackler but not a speedster.
None of these 3 has done a good job at forcing fumbles, sacking, nor TFL's.
Bush has occasionally flashed in Pass coverage but has just as many bad ones.

Austin/Flores, not really sure what the ask is.

 

Consider playing a 4-3 base defense. Watt or Highsmith are interchangeable at a stand up OLB or a DE with their hand on the ground. Then find a MLB that can tackle a run sideline to sideline. Add a beast DT in the draft.

 

It’s a very simple fix we put the punter at nose tackle that’s it. He’s the biggest guy we have

 

Outside of trying to sign Roqoun Smith at MLB in the offseason if he becomes available I don’t see an upgrade at MLB. It is a weka draft at MLB this year. I think the scheme is the bigger issue as far as MLB goes for this defense. I’m not saying we have great MLB’s but on the flip side we are asking to much of them without any protection from the Defensive line.

 

Sad thing is Tomlin would probably think he is too big to play DL. Tomlin doesn’t like true NT

 

You want real change, then get rid of the people who are doing what you don't want them to do. Otherwise, I am not sure changing personnel will get you what you are looking for. Similar to when we had all talent in the world on offense and couldn't do as much as you'd think we would have. The scheme and system are, as you mentioned, the problem. It's predictable and old and what's needed is new ideas and the right personnel to make it work. JMO>

 

In what way has Tomlin ever shown any ability to have a good defence? Yeah for a few years after he took over the team we had a great defence. If I was head coach of the team back then we still would have had a great defence. All the assistants were retained and players were all still there from the 2005 Superbowl team. It didn't take long before that fell apart though.

Since then, we've had flashes of being dominant, with mostly average games and some absolutely horrible games in there. our DB's have mostly sucked for a decade. We've had trouble filling the LB spot when we used to be a LB factory.

Tomlin was a DC for all of 1 year and his team was the worst in the league against the pass. Worst in the league. How in the hell that got him a head coaching position blows my mind.

I can't figure out what people see in Tomlin. What makes him such a good coach? The results speak for themselves.

 

Well if we switch to a 4-3 the MLB would be a concern.. (yanking yer chain)
It's ILB
Trenton Simpson, Noah Sewell, Henry To'oTo'o are top prospects.

Sewell is a big guy I like though I didn't like that last game.
Drew Sanders is another one to watch
Iowa has a guy too, Jack Campbell
But at ILB, Sewell is the guy I would hope shines, he's ~250lbs and pretty darn quick.
You don't draft these guys in the 1st anyway, unless they are crazy good.

Now FA is a good place to look too. I was disappointed in letting Smith go to the Ravens. I feel like that should not have happened.

Also, Heyward is great DL to play behind.. he gets the gap and forces a lot of attention.
A big solid NT would help. Siaki Ika would fit nicely.

***Disclaimer***
I don't have solutions, just ideas. Only the pros know.

 

about 12 seconds in, this should fix it!

 

I think the OP is on the right path when he stated we need DB'S ..IMO this needs to be the way to go as DL can get home given more time , there is also all kinds of run stunts and blitzes than can be called when you can bring 1 more into the box than can be blocked ..The way we play it is we use our extra guy in coverage and then try to handle the run we all see how that is going...

We need the ability to play Cover 1 and Cover 0 if we can't do that it really doesn't matter the names on the jersey ...

 

can't play that D cuz we don't have the talent NOR the coaches to coach it.

we are below the line in many many areas.

 

Bring back Cowher!

 

Another issue everybody ignored… “all we need to do is draft OL” I’ve been saying for weeks we have so many holes… OL, DL, LBs and DBs. Question marks at QB and WR.

Exactly why we needed to lose out. Get a top 3 pick and try to fleece a team. We need high and a lot of draft picks the next 2 years to fix this.

Tomlin winning two pointless games to get beat by a 3rd string QB LOL He’s so clueless.

 

Lebeau...

Not to go down memory lane, but the move away from big DL to take up multiple OL, to gap shooting DL started even when Lebeau was under Tomlin. I used to think WTF are they doing drafting people who don't fit the defensive scheme, or why are they not changing the defensive scheme if they keep drafting different type of DL.

Eventually Tomlin got his way... and look at the results.

 

Steelers did it in 2001 with the drafting of Casey Hampton and Kendrell Bell. Bell was an excellent ILB until the injury bug hit.